Wolfgang's Vault

Just what the name says.
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lukpac
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Wolfgang's Vault

Postby lukpac » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:43 pm

I've been listening here and there. Some things are really great (there are two Leon Russel tracks from 1970 that I don't think have shown up anywhere), but frustratingly it seems like they're playing a lot that's already shown up officially. All the Derek & The Dominos tracks I've heard so far have already been released on In Concert/Live At The Fillmore. The Cream stuff seems to be split - about half has been released on the Live Cream discs, while the rest hasn't. It seems a lot of the Hendrix stuff has been released officially, as have some Byrds and Laura Nyro tracks I've heard.

I also hope that if/when they release this stuff the quality is a bit better. Some things seem to be stereo, while others aren't. What gives?
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Chris M » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:31 pm

I'm really disappointed in vault radio. They are playing stuff from directly from the Band of Gypsys LP (same mixes, edits. etc) and are advertising it as "unreleased concert recordings." I haven't heard anything that isn't either officially released or a very common bootleg. The Cream stuff I heard was from Live Cream vol II and very common boots of '68 shows. The '77 Pink Floyd stuff is sourced from audience recordings for crying out loud. Something's fishy...

I was hoping to hear something from Jimi's 5 night stand at the Fillmore West in June '67 (right after Monterey), various unbooted Doors '67 shows, Pink Floyd with Syd at the Fillmore and Winterland, Jimi's 2/68 Winterland shows, some '67 Cream shows, etc.

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Postby lukpac » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:39 pm

Perhaps they haven't even begun to digitize stuff yet?
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Chris M » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:46 am

They are now playing an audience recording of the Doors set at the '69 Toronto Rock n Roll Revival as well as an audience tape of a '70 Doors show at the Felt Forum in NYC. Both of these are obviously not Bill Graham venues. Furthermore both of the aud tapes have been widely bootlegged since the 1970's. They have added more tracks from the Ryko Jimi at Winterland album (same mixes, same edits, same mastering). This is looking more and more like a sham.

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Postby lukpac » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:45 am

Chris M wrote:Both of these are obviously not Bill Graham venues.


Is it possible they were still Bill Graham promotions?

As far as the sources used - that's pretty nuts. I would *hope* they are just doing this until they really get going, but...
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Xenu » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:48 pm

Chris, someone with the same name as you just posted the same thing at sh.tv!

I suspect a doppelganger.
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Postby Chris M » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:11 pm

Xenu wrote:Chris, someone with the same name as you just posted the same thing at sh.tv!

I suspect a doppelganger.


What a cheeky bastard!

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Postby lukpac » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:27 pm

Have any of the tracks you are playing actually come from the Bill Graham tapes? Or have they all come from bootlegs and official releases? Quite a few of the tracks I've heard (Cream and Derek & the Dominos for example) come directly from official releases (Live Cream vol 2, Live At The Fillmore, etc).

ANSWER; Please read the FAQ on the Vault Radio Home Page for a detailed answer to your question. Thank you.
Wednesday, March 08, 2006
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby lukpac » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:39 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061219/en_ ... wsuit_dc_1

Led Zeppelin, Doors members sue concert video site

By Yinka Adegoke Mon Dec 18, 8:43 PM ET

Some of rock 'n' roll's biggest names have teamed up to sue the owner of a Web site that specializes in streaming rare concert recordings.

Wolfgang's Vault offers thousands of recordings of rare audio and video music performances collected over 30 years by Bill Graham, a famous concert promoter who died in 1991.

On Monday, major rock names including Grateful Dead Productions, Carlos Santana and members of Led Zeppelin and The Doors, sued the current owner, claiming it was illegally offering recordings to stimulate sales of other products.

Wolfgang's Vault representatives were not immediately available for comment.

The site, (http://www.wolfgangsvault.com), also sells T-shirts, pictures and memorabilia such as vintage concert posters and tickets.

The recordings were made at concert performances by a wide array of artists from Bob Marley to Bob Dylan. The site's collection has been described by some industry watchers as one of the most important groupings of rock memorabilia and recordings ever assembled in one business.

The suit was filed at the U.S. District Court in the Northern District of California against William Sagan, who bought the assets of Graham for $5 million from Clear Channel Entertainment more than three years ago.

"Sagan simply doesn't have the legal rights to exploit and profit from the extraordinary success of these musicians," Jeff Reeves, who represents the artists, said in a statement.

Wolfgang's Vault derives from Graham's given name of Wolfgang Grajonca. Over the course of his career as a promoter he is credited within the music industry for helping create the modern concert promotion business.

Live music performances, both in audio and video formats, are a fast-growing area online for companies including Time Warner Inc.'s AOL unit and Microsoft Corp.'s online unit MSN. Such companies say advertisers are keen for original content which works well in the online video format.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Chris M » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:18 am

For some reason when I try to tell people that most of this lot is sourced from bootlegs they don't believe me. Even when I point out that audience sources are spliced into the gaps in the SB they still don't believe me. Oh, well.
"I've had 40 years experience with hearing tape and vinyl. I was recording tapes before you were born" - Grant

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Postby David R. Modny » Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:13 pm

Chris M wrote:For some reason when I try to tell people that most of this lot is sourced from bootlegs they don't believe me. Even when I point out that audience sources are spliced into the gaps in the SB they still don't believe me. Oh, well.


I'll give you that quite a bit may be sourced from bootlegs, but I might debate the "most" part. :)

For example, the KBFH stuff is obviously sourced from the masters (which now makes up a healthy chunk of the archive). The broadcast transcription discs often have voice-overs over music intros and outros, whereas this stuff doesn't. The KBFH boots that I've heard usually use these broadcast sources.

And, there's still quite a bit of obscure stuff on there that I've never seen *circulating* bootlegs or torrents of (Grassroots, Everlys). If bootlegs do exist, I haven't had the fortune of stumbling upon them.

My biggest gripe with the shows that are complete (the '85 KBFH Daltrey show for example) is that a) the lossy encoding is fairly low bitrate...artifact city, and b) there's still so much more KBFH stuff out there to be had!

Personally, as someone who collects KBFH transcription discs, I wish they would offer some sort of (pay) lossless download option. Though, I won't hold my breath in light of recent events.

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Postby Chris M » Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:40 pm

I'm certainly not familiar with bootlegs of all of the artists on Wolfgang's Vault but all of the Hendrix, Zeppelin, Who, Cream, CCR, Doors, and Springsteen is sourced from bootlegs. The Laura Nyro show is sourced from a Columbia/Legacy reissue. The Great Society show is sourced from an OOP official release. I think it's a good bet that the stuff I'm not familiar with comes from boots as well.

I really don't know much about the KBFH. Why would Graham have those shows in his archive? Did he promote those shows?
"I've had 40 years experience with hearing tape and vinyl. I was recording tapes before you were born" - Grant

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Postby David R. Modny » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:48 pm

Chris M wrote:
I really don't know much about the KBFH. Why would Graham have those shows in his archive? Did he promote those shows?


Wolfgangs made a deal to be the internet repository for the KBFH shows starting this past Nov. 20th. They probably put up about (guessing) 200 KBFH shows, maybe more, to start and have been adding 5 or so a week since.

http://www.kingbiscuit.com/

(Bottom paragraph)

and here:

http://www.kingbiscuit.com/radio.html

(toward the middle)

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Postby Chris M » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:55 am

Oops. I guess I missed that.
"I've had 40 years experience with hearing tape and vinyl. I was recording tapes before you were born" - Grant

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Postby Jelly » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:34 pm

Chris M wrote:The Laura Nyro show is sourced from a Columbia/Legacy reissue.


Actually it isn't. Spread Your Wings.. is from May 71, the one that's on the Vault is from June 70.

And there are voice-overs on some of those recordings, for instance The Allmans Winterland 73.