Bowie RCA discs

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:34 am

Making heads or tails of these things could take some time. Versions on compilations offer differ *markedly* from the standard discs. For example, those who've gotten their discs already (and if you didn't get one: I think I sent discs to Luke, Jeff, Beatlesfan, and one other already, so if you want, do email me): listen to "Wild is the Wind" on "Station to Station," and then listen to it on "ChangesTwoBowie."

krabapple · Postby **krabapple** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:47 pm

Here's another attempt to quantify differences between Bowie releases. Unfortunately in this case -- Scary Monsters -- I don't have an 'RCA' version. So this comparison uses the Ryko as reference, comparing it to the Virgin CD and both layers of the Virgin hybrid SACD release.

Result:

1) digital rips of the Virgin CD and the Virgin SACD CD layer appear identical (i.e, one frequency profile completely overlays the other) and in fact, align/invert/mixpaste confirms this. Also, if one digitizes the analog output of the CD layer, and adjusts the peak level to match the digital rip , it too completely overlays the Virgin (however, it doesn't cancel out in an align/invert/mixpaste, but that's because one can't expect a D/A/D chain to produce a bit-perfect copy). This suggests my D/A/D setup is pretty accurate. All D/A/D captures were done at 88/32bit , then resampled and quantized down to 44/16 with dither, then peak-normalized to match the peak value of the Virgin CD rip.

2) The Virgin CD versions are louder than the DSD, as well as the Ryko. Given that the Virgin CD (and clones) peaks a fraction *lower* than the Ryko yet has a higher average RMS level, some sort of dynamic range compression may be at work. (crest factors -- difference between avg and peak levels -- for the different versions are as follows for l/r channels: 19.0/19.5 dB [Ryko], 15.7/16.8 [Virgin CD and SACD-CD layer], 19.4/19.9 [SACD-DSD].)

3) there's a few notable EQ differences between the DSD and CD layers of the SACD, seen more clearly in the second graph, where they have been levelmatched at 1 kHz (e.g., more energy at ~70 Hz in the DSD than CD), but their shapes are roughly the same overall.

4) all of these, compared to the Ryko , level matched at 1 kHz, show more bass and treble, while midrange is roughly similar to the Ryko

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:51 pm

I had heard in the past that the "Scary Monsters" CD layer was the same as the stock CD. Nice to see that confirmed.

Is the SACD layer on that thing worthwhile at all?

(and would you feel like being the one to check to see if there's any NR--or, at least, any *disparity* in use of NR--between the CD and SACD layers of Ziggy?)

krabapple · Postby **krabapple** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:03 am

NR isn't necessarily easy to spot, unless it' *just* NR, with no subsequent attempt to recover treble by boosting high frequencies. I suppose I could examine the fade outs or fadeins for evidence of NR, but you still wouldn't know if it had been applied throughout the track.

In the end the 'Scary Monsters' that I archived was the SACD DSD layer transfer. It's got the most dynamic range, and sounds pretty good to me. The Ryko Bowie discs always sounded thin to me.

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:53 pm

NR certainly isn't easy to spot, but a comparison between two sources can generally reveal whether one is more or less hissy than the other. Also, some NR artifacts are glaringly obvious ("Eyesight to the Blind").

I'd do it myself, but the headphone-output on my SACD player suddenly died, and my stereo tends to add a decent amount of hiss to everything.

krabapple · Postby **krabapple** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:00 pm

I can certainly give A/Bing them for NR a shot, but not just yet -- I've had a bad head cold all weekend and I've still got cotton-ear.

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:22 pm

I ended up with an extra DVD of the RCA stuff, somehow. Anybody want it?

damianm · Postby **damianm** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:03 pm

Xenu wrote:I ended up with an extra DVD of the RCA stuff, somehow. Anybody want it?

I'd love to have it, but I was told just last week that our fucking Customs office has decided not to allow optical media to enter the country by mail anymore.. or something to that effect.

Whatever. Carry on.

Ess Ay Cee Dee · Postby **Ess Ay Cee Dee** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:49 pm

damianm wrote:
Xenu wrote:I ended up with an extra DVD of the RCA stuff, somehow. Anybody want it?

I'd love to have it, but I was told just last week that our fucking Customs office has decided not to allow optical media to enter the country by mail anymore.. or something to that effect.

Whatever. Carry on.

Maybe David can burn the FLACs onto a bunch of 5-1/4" floppy disks.

David?

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:55 pm

damianm wrote:
Xenu wrote:I ended up with an extra DVD of the RCA stuff, somehow. Anybody want it?

I'd love to have it, but I was told just last week that our fucking Customs office has decided not to allow optical media to enter the country by mail anymore.. or something to that effect.

WHAAA?

That's...odd.

If it helps, I can always just lie and say it's something else (or, alternately, write normally, which produces something illegible around 50% of the time). Most we lose is a DVDR.

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:57 pm

Just a note: I picked up the German RCA "Lodger" today for $3 (Lodger never seems to fetch anything above $5). This is the first RCA German/Japanese duplicate I have, and I was surprised to see that entire *package* varied...the insert is different, catalog no. is different, etc. Curious.

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:15 pm

Resurrecting an astoundingly old thread: Oink is apparently good for something more than just mass piracy:

This Japanese RCA CD [RCA PCD1-2522] sounds identical to my 1983 vinyl reissue of this album, right down to the missing first second of "Beauty and the Beast." Still the best version of this album on CD (at least until someone posts the German pressing).

Well, blow me down, he's right! Chalk up another obvious difference between the Japanese and German RCA editions. At this point, are there any Japanese discs that're actually *preferable*?

Andreas · Postby **Andreas** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:08 pm

Xenu wrote: At this point, are there any Japanese discs that're actually *preferable*?

Of the ones I compared, Space Oddity, and by a large amount.

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:47 am

Interesting. I had forgotten about that.

This is all getting more confusing. Someone posted a Japanese edition (presumably for the US) of Changestwobowie on Oink; I have a Japanese-for-Germany disc. They're definitely not the same.

BTW, Andreas, a few of the ones you sent me don't have Japanese/German divisions (Ziggy, for example). Are all of those German?

Andreas · Postby **Andreas** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:34 pm

Xenu wrote:BTW, Andreas, a few of the ones you sent me don't have Japanese/German divisions (Ziggy, for example). Are all of those German?

Yes, all of these are German. The exception is Aladdin Sane, which says "Made In Japan" on the disc, but has the same design and catalogue number scheme as my German discs, and the back cover says "Printed in Germany".