Bowie RCA discs

[Xenu]

Somehow, I've ended up with quite a few of these CDs. Is there any interest here for a forum-distributed DVDR of the titles I possess?

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

I wouldn't mind hearing them. The only one I've ever heard is Diamond Dogs and I wasn't terribly impressed. Still, I'm a sucker for freebies, so sign me up.

I have the entire Ryko series (minus the two live discs), so if anyone wants or needs those, I'll make the same offer.

[J_Partyka]

I vote "yes" ... I only have RCA's of Low and "Heroes," so there are at least a few others I'd be curious to hear.

[Beatlesfan03]

I've got Station to Station, Young Americans, and Diamond Dogs if you need any of those.

[Xenu]

I'm going to catalog exactly what I have (including stuff from other people) tomorrow night.

[Andreas]

Since our last trade, I have found Hunky Dory and ChangesOneBowie.

[Xenu]

I have Changesonebowie.

You really *are* making a choice with the RCA: the best bass presence around versus stable high end and better stereo separation (it's pretty undeniable that these things are at least a generation down in some cases, as there's some channel leakage you don't hear otherwise).

Is it possible that the bass presence is just due to some sort of magic EQ move made during LP mastering that was never duplicated in the CD era? It's possible that the heralded RCA bass presence is anywhere near the masters, given Bowie's fabled preference for incredibly bright final mixes.

[Andreas]

David,

have you compared ChangesOneBowie to the album CDs? I found it better, not only in terms of eq, also clearer, less noises, the most dramatic difference was Space Oddity.

Let's not get into the RCA versus Ryko discussion. There will never be a consensus.

I guess the RCA CDs were straight copies from the LP cutting masters, in some cases more than just one generation away from the master (e.g. Space Oddity). If Bowie was so keen on bright mixes, why did he allow the LPs to have that great bass?

[krabapple]

I have Changesonebowie.

You really *are* making a choice with the RCA: the best bass presence around versus stable high end and better stereo separation (it's pretty undeniable that these things are at least a generation down in some cases, as there's some channel leakage you don't hear otherwise).

Is it possible that the bass presence is just due to some sort of magic EQ move made during LP mastering that was never duplicated in the CD era? It's possible that the heralded RCA bass presence is anywhere near the masters, given Bowie's fabled preference for incredibly bright final mixes.

Possibly it's just that the generational loss makes the bass seem more 'present', due to less high end.

It would be fairly easy to take the same track from the various remastered versions and do a frequency profile of all of them, with Audition. If someone sends me the Ryko and RCA versions of, say, Heroes (the song , not the whole CDs) , I'll do it.

[MK]

Cool, I'd dig a DVDR. I've only got Station to Station and it sounds soooo different from the Ryko version. Definitely a much better bass, but definitely two generations down at least.

[Xenu]

Possibly it's just that the generational loss makes the bass seem more 'present', due to less high end.

That's what I thought for a while too, but I think it's at least partially intentional.

As to the "why would Bowie allow it:" I don't think it's an issue of allowing it. Bowie's realm could easily have been the final mixdown, and he might not have minded if something changed along the path to the cutting itself.

I think it's far more puzzling to wonder how the Frank Zappa who oversaw such amazing-sounding LP cuttings turned into a shitty judge of digital mastering.

[Xenu]

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/jeangenie.flac

First part: Au20 "Changesbowie." Second part: RCA "Changesonebowie" (Japan pressing). I had to normalize the RCA, as it was about 50% of the volume of the Au20 disc.

Now, a direct comparison of master sources here might be a bit unfair: Ryko presumably used the Alladin Sane master tape for this song, while RCA probably pulled the Changesonebowie album master (as Andreas notes above, though, this apparently sounds better than some individual RCA releases). Consequently, there's some channel leakage in the RCA that isn't on the Ryko.

While I enjoy some of the RCAs (especially "Man Who Sold the World" and "Pin Ups," the latter of which is actually mastered at something approximating full volume), and I acknowledge the reason praise is occasionally thrown in their direction, I can't believe how they're put on a pedestal by people who should know better.

[Andreas]

David,

no contest in my opinion, I prefer the RCA in the above sample. Everything sounds more coherent and balanced in my opinion, while on the Au20, certain parts are too penetrant. I actually could hear the bass more clearly on the Au20, but it was the same case with the Led Zeppelin remasters which have a well-defined yet harsh and a bit superficial bass sound. I prefer a deeper, earthier bass sound, even if it is muddier.

I have never put them on a pedestal, though.

A frequency profile would be most interesting.

I wonder what the master tapes really sound like.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

Are you saying that the Rykos are simply "bass-shy" or something else?

Am I off the mark here by suggesting that any bass deficiency on the Ryko versions could be easily solved by turning up the bass knob a tad or two?

You guys do have tone controls, right?

[MK]

With Station to Station, on the RCA disc it was a full bass. Same general level or volume as the Rykodisc, whatever's the correct terminology, but nice and fat.