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Has anyone compared the overlapping tracks from the Rhino Love Story 2CD set and the mono/stereo reeissues? Anyone compared Forever Changes on the rhino set with the FC reissue?

Was No 14 ever released in stereo?

Also, is the mono FC a folddown or a genuine mono mix?

Thanks,

Chris

Xenu O Great One, a member beckons.

Hmph. As much as I hate being sloppy seconds...

Chris M wrote:Has anyone compared the overlapping tracks from the Rhino Love Story 2CD set and the mono/stereo reeissues? Anyone compared Forever Changes on the rhino set with the FC reissue?

I've done the latter (as I don't have the Da Capo reissue, and I think the self-titled reissue is fairly decent). Result: the independant F/C reissue seems to have the treble and the upper mids jacked somewhat. I find the version on Love Story to be superior. Stay away from earlier discs, though, as they have some sort of background frequency issues going on.

Was No 14 ever released in stereo?

I think it's the only cut that hasn't shown up in stereo at the moment (IIRC, people expected this to show up on the Best of Love set).

Also, is the mono FC a folddown or a genuine mono mix?

Thanks,

Chris

I notice that you elaborated on your question a bit more on that other site...to answer that variant, the extended fadeouts on the mono mix (if they do indeed exist...I haven't heard it) seem to be merely a result of fading the folded-down stereo mixes slightly later. It is a knockdown, from all reports.

Thanks! I found the FC reissue a little bright myself. Do you have the Last Walls of the Castle boot? If so how are the alt mixes of the FC tracks?

Chris

I do indeed.

Random point: that boot has always felt to me like a stolen reel of outtakes, etc. being prepared for the reissues (as a LOT of stuff on there ends up on the reissues in some form). The F/C outtakes are clearly not first-gen, but the other outtakes (the instrumental first album--INCLUDING No. 14 in stereo as a backing track--and the Your Mind and Me outtakes, for example) are absolutely stellar sounding, which is very suspicious.

In any case, realize that only two alternate F/C don't show up on the reissue (You Set the Scene and Wonder People are on the official disc). "House" is, IIRC, dryer and has a very different feel, while Red Telephone has the voices at the end mixed much differently. I haven't listened to it in quite a while, though, but I could give it a quick A/B and report if you really want me to.

The best sounding "Alone Again Or"/"A House Is Not A Motel" you'll ever hear is on the 1968 Elektra stock stereo 45, and I wish my ancient copy were in better shape...like a few of the Doors' stereo 45's, something was done to those mixes that didn't translate quite as well to Lp vinyl(and subsequent reissues).


ED

I actually had one of those way back when. Sold it.

BTW, Ed, thanks for being one of the few people defending us on that Stones thread at sh.tv (as we can't be there to argue ourselves).

-D

Anytime, D. I have a very long memory, and won't forget all the shots that were taken, and we were pretty much alone in defending it, while those who didn't bother to read even the short form and who apparently didn't have the neccessary sources to rebut it--kept piling on until the padlock came. Old history, but not forgotten. Just the bullshit you'll find in any audiophile forum: there'll always be a few jerks to challenge you, not knowing enough to have the right; and so few to back you up when you know you're right. The latter I can understand, at least, since they don't want to get involved and have an unreasonable fear of consequences and moderators(a fear I don't have anywhere I've gone. I like to think I know how to behave civilly even in the midst of chaos). Wherever I land these days--and SH is still Forum #1-- I just roll with the punches.

________

BTW, if you can remember, did you have the 'red top' Elektra 45? If so, you had the stereo single. If you had the brown/black label with the spokes, that was the 1970 mono-only remix, which doesn't match the mono 1967 FC Lp(also, the flip was "Good Times"). It was included as a bonus cut on the latest FC reissue, though not labeled as such.

Chris asked me about the FC mono being a fold-down. I did play it the other night, but to be honest, I don't hear any significant longer or different fades, though they could well be there. I'd like to think I'd catch 'em, since that one's gotten a few hundred spins(at least)since I bought it in '68. Really, nothing of any sonic significance stands out as being different, which is not true of DA CAPO; the alt mixes on there are, well, EVERYTHING! The least obvious differences, ironically, are on "Revelation," but all of Side 1 is alt mixes so blatantly so Rhino had the good sense to put many of them on LOVE STORY and all on the DA CAPO M/S.

ED

Ed Bishop wrote:The best sounding "Alone Again Or"/"A House Is Not A Motel" you'll ever hear is on the 1968 Elektra stock stereo 45

Better than on The Golden Age Of Underground Radio Vol 2?

lukpac wrote:

Ed Bishop wrote:The best sounding "Alone Again Or"/"A House Is Not A Motel" you'll ever hear is on the 1968 Elektra stock stereo 45

Better than on The Golden Age Of Underground Radio Vol 2?

That's the best CD source, but a mint copy of the '68 45 will beat it(IMO, and I wish I had one still mint!), just as Steve's master is the only one that's really in the ballpark with the 1st presses of FC. All the others have some kind of nasty at work: the original CD, as D pointed out, has some kind of weird ringing sound early on; LOVE STORY is NR'd, and unless my memory's wrong, the channel without the guitar is left mute, even though you should hear some ambience in it; while, as also noted, the lates remaster has an upper mid spike.

ED

Just the bullshit you'll find in any audiophile forum: there'll always be a few jerks to challenge you, not knowing enough to have the right; and so few to back you up when you know you're right.

Well, duh, but usually I can respond to attacks. My "wanking" over this is called into question, and clearly I can't respond directly. And given the amount of effort we spent on that yes-we'll-update-it-soon-when-I'm-finally-in-the-zone-which-probably-will-increase-the-closer-the-Radiohead-concert-gets FAQ, it's sad to see it buried by some in the fan community *and* sh.tv (it's never referenced! Bah).

ON OTHER TOPICS.

Are you sure Love Story is NRed? I never really bothered to check. Lemme put it on.

I hear a *lot* of hiss, Ed. Are you sure about this? Love Story is still my favorite F/C on CD; Steve's "Alone Again Or" sounds great--and matches the tonality of the yes-it-was-the-original-single I had--but not extremely better. Kinda like my feelings about his Spirit masterings on Underground Radio. Sure, they're good, and they match the EQs of the originals, but those reissue campaigns were amazing, and it isn't like the original discs were that shabby.

I've never actually heard the first CD pressing of F/C, but thanks to those wonderful audio thieves at Raven, some cuts from it are on She Comes in Colors (which I guess is a pointless comp in the here-and-now, but does give you the entire stereo Da Capo album minus Revelations, and it was a great purchase back when I had Love Story for the mono cuts and the self-titled album was impossible to find). *ALL* of the tracks have the ringing. Lord knows what happened. It certainly isn't subtle.

But yes. LOVE STORY. Oddly, if only Forever Changes had been treated like the other Love reissues, it'd probably be better...I'm very happy with S/T and Four Sail.

D,

Should have clarified: just the intro of "Alone Again Or" with the guitar on one side and what should be ambience in the other, quite audible on the original Lp & 45(and probably a few subsequent repressings)is muted, though I'd have to pull the thing out to be sure; could have been the original CD pressing that had that channel muted until the other instruments come in. I could be wrong about LOVE STORY having that ambient channel muted(I didn't mean to imply LOVE STORY is NR'd, it's not). Also credit where it's due for the FOUR SAIL tracks finally sounding clean, without the grunge of the original Lp pressing I have(also a problem with their first album; on the other hand, DA CAPO was clean from the start; nice sonics).

ED

Xenu wrote:

I've never actually heard the first CD pressing of F/C, but thanks to those wonderful audio thieves at Raven . . .

I'm real fond of the folks at Raven [well, fond of much of their *stuff* anyway]. "Audio thieves"? More info, please.

Ron wrote:I'm real fond of the folks at Raven [well, fond of much of their *stuff* anyway]. "Audio thieves"? More info, please.

Hi, Ron. How goes it?

Not speaking for D, but what I think he means is their tendency to use existing sources they have on hand, rather than push for better sources that might also be available(or made available if they asked). The Love CD has erratic sound quality because of that, I think. But it pales next to the notorious 1994 James Darren CD, TEENAGE TEARS, which is not only loaded with mono(personally, I didn't mind that), some stereo, but worst of all, several awful transfers from very worn 45's(in other words, they didn't even bother to track down MINT 45's to dub!). And the sound quality on everything pales next to the Rhino CD. 30 tracks is great, but the sound quality so mediocre(at best), wasn't worth the bother. In other words, Ace/UK Raven is NOT! They've put out some interesting, decent titles, but this sort of thing was almost early '90s Collectables worthy


ED

Things here are fine, thanks. Re: Raven, don't know about the James Darren CD, and never had the Love comp and I used to have the Gram Parsons comp [but don't remember much about it]. The fairly recent Saints 2-CD set is excellent. As were the Ugly Things 60's OZ LP comps from many years ago [though there may have been a couple of problems with the CD issue]. And I've also got, believe it or not, an Aretha Franklin "Spirit in the Dark" LP that's really good. But having said all that, your explanation makes sense about using whatever's on hand. Not surprising that their local OZ stuff is definitive, though.