Ongoing Rolling Stones thread

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MK
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Postby MK » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:56 pm

Yeah, I kind of wish the mastering was more on the warm, less sharp side, but for the ones I still have, it suits the music pretty well - the early albums up to and including OOH, Beggar's, and The Singles Collection.
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Xenu
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Postby Xenu » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:05 pm

Comparing the new "Route 66" to the old versions is pretty instructive, actually...very different EQ.
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Postby MK » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:15 pm

How different?
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Postby Xenu » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:00 pm

I had posted a clip a while back, but can't find it. If you want, though, I'll make a new one.
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Postby MK » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:02 pm

If you don't mind. Thanks!
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Postby Xenu » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:27 pm

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/66.flac

(the smallest FLAC *ever*)

Made from the right channel of:

a) The "first-edition" German disc
b) The old ABKCO
c) The "inaugural edition" (read: not mono-ized) ABKCO hybrid.

A quick guide.

00:03 - German
00:03-06 - Hybrid
"Well if you..." German
"My way, that's the highway" hybrid
"Get your kicks" Old ABKCO

Pay attention to the hi-hats and clapping. And laugh like crazy at the old ABKCO.
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MK
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Postby MK » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:20 pm

Sounds like an 8k boost on the hybrid. Or 10 k, whatever, somewhere in that ballpark, but not too bad, just something to make it sound harder, a bit sharper, maybe "gritty" or grainier...

Wow, that old ABKCO disc sucks. They should melt those suckers down just to keep the market free of them.
"When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it. After my experience, I have come to hate war." – Dwight D. Eisenhower



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Postby Xenu » Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:51 am

Oddly enough, though, just that and "Carol" sound like *that* on the old disc. Lots of the other stuff is much closer.

FWIW, it looks as if "Now" suddenly joins "More Hot Rocks," "The Singles Collection" and "Got Live!" in the "if you're an insane completist" category. Simply put: the two Chess stereo tracks on "Now!" sound better on the old ABKCO than they do on the old London, and "What a Shame" is slightly folded in on the hybrid. Poop.
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Postby Aftermath » Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:31 pm

I didn't even realize the old abkco Now! even HAD any stereo tracks. Interesting...

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Postby lukpac » Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:15 pm

Aftermath wrote:I didn't even realize the old abkco Now! even HAD any stereo tracks. Interesting...


Yep... I remember having the singles collection where (IIRC) Heart of Stone switches from stereo to mono. I had just assumed they panned one channel for the intro. When I got Now! I was skipping through the tracks and just about shit my pants when Heart of Stone *stayed* in stereo after the intro. I think I may have heard Satisfaction in stereo on the radio by that point, and I had an idea that this stuff might be available *somewhere*, but I don't think I knew about the London CDs yet.

Of course, the whole "why did they use *that* stereo mix but not these others" issue still perplexes me to this day.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Xenu » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:30 pm

lukpac wrote:Yep... I remember having the singles collection where (IIRC) Heart of Stone switches from stereo to mono. I had just assumed they panned one channel for the intro. When I got Now! I was skipping through the tracks and just about shit my pants when Heart of Stone *stayed* in stereo after the intro. I think I may have heard Satisfaction in stereo on the radio by that point, and I had an idea that this stuff might be available *somewhere*, but I don't think I knew about the London CDs yet.
.


I wish we had someone we could seriously consult regarding sources. They seem to be all over the map (and I stil maintain, incidentally, that ABKCO and London had the same sources for a few discs).
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taylorrichards
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Postby taylorrichards » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:09 pm

I don't know if this is an issue or not. This is my conjecture for the time being. I still maintain that even though ABKCO made a huge deal out of the fact that better masters were found for most of the material in the hybrids, the best masters (meaning the actual mixdown masters) were still not used. I still have a sick feeling that somebody has even better ones than were used. Why do I have the feeling that Mick and Keith have stuff squirrled away(either literally in their tape storage areas or with 3rd party people they trust) that nobody knows about?
Prior to the hybrids ever getting released, I once posed a question to Keith, during an AOL online chat, where the original masters were being stored. He told me "Who's the thief that wants to know?" and then he said they were "Being stored in a silo somewhere".
Let the conspiracy theories begin! LOL!
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Margaret: Oh yeah? How would you know?
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Postby lukpac » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:17 pm

I guess I don't buy it, at least not for most stuff. That certainly doesn't explain something like Beggars.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Aftermath » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:16 am

Xenu wrote: I wish we had someone we could seriously consult regarding sources. They seem to be all over the map (and I stil maintain, incidentally, that ABKCO and London had the same sources for a few discs).


We need to plant a mole somewhere at Abkco. I'd like to have Bob Ludwigs ear for a few hours.

As for Heart of Stone, I've never heard the stereo/mono monstrosity, but it must be some listen. One thing about that track--its the only pre Aftermath RCA track that's appeared and *been allowed to survive* in wide stereo, correct? Loving You Too Long is in stereo but that just appeared on the SACD.

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Postby lukpac » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:05 am

Aftermath wrote:We need to plant a mole somewhere at Abkco. I'd like to have Bob Ludwigs ear for a few hours.


I don't think he would know. I asked him about versions once, and he basically said he just mastered the tapes he was given.

As for Heart of Stone, I've never heard the stereo/mono monstrosity, but it must be some listen. One thing about that track--its the only pre Aftermath RCA track that's appeared and *been allowed to survive* in wide stereo, correct? Loving You Too Long is in stereo but that just appeared on the SACD.


Offhand, I think you're right.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD