Beach Boys - "Smile" reconstruction

Just what the name says.
Mike Hunte
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Postby Mike Hunte » Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:43 pm

lukpac wrote:
Indeed, but in fairness, it isn't limited to BW. Just look at how every Stones album for the past 15 years has been "the best since Exile" or "the best since Some Girls".

It's probably worse with BW, but...


I think the difference is that it goes so many levels deeper with Brian and his following - more than just a musical thing. It becomes an issue of these folks needing to prove that he is physically, psychologically, and musically better than he was just yesterday.

I've never heard anyone post on a Stones board how "happy Mick must be 'cause he smiled on TV during Satisfaction..."

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Postby Rspaight » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:48 pm

Same deal with McCartney. I think every album he's made since Back To The Egg has been hailed as the one we've all been waiting for since Band On The Run.

(Well, probably not Press To Play. I don't think even Paul apologists can make a case for that one.)

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Postby Rspaight » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:49 pm

I've never heard anyone post on a Stones board how "happy Mick must be 'cause he smiled on TV during Satisfaction..."


Well, there are the hordes of Dylan maniacs who parse each utterance from the stage for clues on how his post-motorcycle-accident cranium is holding up...

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Postby Xenu » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:55 pm

Mike Hunte wrote:My point being, is that I've been hearing these exact same proclamations for the last 20 or so odd years with literally every new project or performance that he's attached to!


The funny thing is, from what brief clips I've seen of Brian in the eighties (where he was apparently at his "lowest"), he tends to look pretty together at times.
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Postby Beatlesfan03 » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:44 pm

Rspaight wrote:Same deal with McCartney. I think every album he's made since Back To The Egg has been hailed as the one we've all been waiting for since Band On The Run.

(Well, probably not Press To Play. I don't think even Paul apologists can make a case for that one.)



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Postby MK » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:56 pm

It didn't need "My Love" but that still went to number one.
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Postby Andreas » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:59 am

About Brian "doing better than last year or ten year ago"....

Brian is very inconsistent. I saw the Pet Sounds tour 2002 in Berlin, and he was very shaky and insecure. Many missed vocals, no energy, no feeling. Then I saw the Smile show last year in Frankfurt, and he was phenomenal, especially during the Smile part. So has he so much improved from 2002 to 2004? No, just an example for his inconsistency. But it is true that one of his worst live performances were done around 1998/1999, so he generally has improved since then; excpetions confirm the rule.

I am of the opinion that Brian's best vocals since 1971 were recorded in 1989/1990 for the (musically mediocre, heavily Landy-influenced) Sweet Insanity album. Supposedly during his worst time. And his voice was much stronger around 1995 (Orange Crate Art, Wilson-Paley sessions) than now.

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Postby JWB » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:45 am

I was at the Philly "Smile" concert and Brian was in tip-top shape. I was impressed. I thought his voice sounded good too.

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Postby Mike Hunte » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:40 pm

Andreas wrote:About Brian "doing better than last year or ten year ago"....

Brian is very inconsistent. I saw the Pet Sounds tour 2002 in Berlin, and he was very shaky and insecure. Many missed vocals, no energy, no feeling. Then I saw the Smile show last year in Frankfurt, and he was phenomenal, especially during the Smile part. So has he so much improved from 2002 to 2004? No, just an example for his inconsistency. But it is true that one of his worst live performances were done around 1998/1999, so he generally has improved since then; excpetions confirm the rule.

I am of the opinion that Brian's best vocals since 1971 were recorded in 1989/1990 for the (musically mediocre, heavily Landy-influenced) Sweet Insanity album. Supposedly during his worst time. And his voice was much stronger around 1995 (Orange Crate Art, Wilson-Paley sessions) than now.



I think in the studio he listenable at best if one doesn't mind the general slurry and shouty sound of his "modern" voice - which has been pretty much in the same ballpark since the mid-80's. Sure, different production yields different results...the multi-tracked, auto-tuned monstrosity that is "Imagination" being just one example. Perhaps, GIOMH from Sweet Insanity being the flipside - an example of a decent finshed product. I also think some of the background vocals he's done for other artists can sometimes yield a pleasing result.

Live it's another story. I've seen him twice in the 70's, and twice since his return to touring. In the 70's, he really didn't do much except "sing" a couple lines of "Sloop John B," wander on and off the stage during the show, and chain-smoke at the piano. So, there's not much to comment on there except to say that he was in a bad way. Obviously, the '81 Long Beach "BB's minus Carl show" was the absolute low-point of that era...the less said the better.

The '98 Farm Aid show (which I'd assume is the show that Andreas is referencing) was another obvious vocal disaster. Who's idea was it to have him stand out in the front by himself when he certainly wasn't up to the task...his off-key voice mixed up-front and naked? I won't even count this performance from the Thomas era...

The thing that I find most disturbing about the current go-arounds with the 'Mints is just how much effort there is to *cover* his voice in a live setting. Whether it's riding his voice up and down in the mix, or simply having his "human eraser" Jeff Foskett double for him, it's a tell-tale sign that Brian still isn't really *that* much better then a few years back. Yes, there are some numbers that he pulls of better than others ("L&M" "GOK"), but there are others that he's just not up to the task for IMO.

When I saw him in 01 and 02, he's was woefully flat and monotone both nights with his eyes firmly glued to that teleprompter...when he actually was singing by *himself*. Recently, during Live 8, everything was done to cover his voice up with the other 'Mints...and he still managed to lose his place a few times and had to drop out completely. The Bridge show a few years back...pretty much consistently flat.

So does he have "good nights?" I haven't seen one yet (though the overall performances were enjoyable). I'll just have to take the words of those who say that he does.

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Postby Beatlesfan03 » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:05 pm

Mike Hunte wrote:. Sure, different production yields different results...the multi-tracked, auto-tuned monstrosity that is "Imagination" being just one example. Perhaps, GIOMH from Sweet Insanity being the flipside - an example of a decent finshed product. I also think some of the background vocals he's done for other artists can sometimes yield a pleasing result.


Ahh, no wonder why I think his voice didn't sound all that bad on "Imagination."

I remember seeing "I Just Wasn't Meant For These Times" on The Disney Channel (yes, the Disney Channel - all drug references excised) and was surprised to hear how off he sounded. Quite sad actually.

Of course, to me, it seems everytime there is a mention of Brian Wilson album/tour, et al, the general consensus is Brian sounds just like the old Brian which I think is highly impossible after all he's been though. It's a miracle he has any voice left. The Brian voice hype is right up there with every McCartney album coming out being heralded as his best.

Don't get me wrong, I've heard some good and bad performances of his. Overall, they tend to lean more towards the bad, but when he's on, he's quite enjoyable.

Out of curiousity (haven't picked it up just yet), is Wilson's performance on the Live 8 DVD?
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Postby Mike Hunte » Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:38 pm

Not to beat a dead horse...ok...maybe to beat it a little:

Now, I *get* that Mike Love is considered the antichrist to all things Brian. But, why is it that when Mike appears on some TV parade show doing a re-recorded "Little Saint Nick" that he's mocked mercilessly on a message board? Yet, when Brian appears a few days later on a TV tree-lighting show doing a re-recorded "Little Saint Nick" he's praised as looking happy, being wonderful...etc, etc, on that same board?

I'm failing to grasp this all. If anything, it's probably one song that Mike has as much claim to as Brian does...possibly even more considering he sang the damned thing to begin with.


I know, I know...Mike Love is evil and must "burn" for all of eternity.

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Postby MK » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:39 pm

Most listeners only care when Love sues the Beach Boys, because 1) it's usually motivated by pure greed and ego and 2) it usually means a big delay or a complete kibosh on some widely anticipated project/release. When he does these second-string gigs like Little St. Nick, the only ones paying attention are the same obsessives still paying good $ to see these nostalgia concerts when Arcade Fire or OutKast is on the other side of town.
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Postby czeskleba » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:39 pm

Mike, clearly you can't tell the difference between bold artistic reinvention and shameless nostalgia flogging...

Yeah, logically it makes no sense. If anything, Brian should be held to a *higher* standard than Mike, because he's theoretically capable of so much more.

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Postby Mike Hunte » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:20 pm

Ahh yes, indeed. But, let's take it to the next level for just a second - an alternate universe theory if you will.

Assuming that they were both doing it just to keep within the spirit of holiday cheer, I have to wonder if each "performance" would be critiqued using the same standards if that historically perceived/proven artistic gap between the two subjects wasn't a factor.

Rather, me thinks they just hate Mike Love for being Mike Love -- and conversely love Brian for being Brian -- no matter what they do. Even if, at times, it's the same *exact* thing...lol.


I know...my "theory" isn't exactly revelatory.

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Postby Andreas » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:52 am

Mike,

what you describe is the one reason why I don't post as much on Beach Boys message boards anymore, despite them being my very favorite band by far.

Mike Love has a license and pays for the right to use the Beach Boys name. Objectively, he is the one that holds the Beach Boys name up in public regard. This results in:
1. Income for Brian, Al and Carl's estate from the tours.
2. Income for Brian from the songwriting royalties for the performed songs written or co-written by Brian.
3. Income for Brian, Al and Carl's estate from the license fee.
4. Promotion for Beach Boys Greatest Hits CDs, which means more income for Brian, Al and Carl's estate.

Mike simply never left the Beach Boys (as a touring band). All other members preferred to pursue their solo careers at some point and left the Beach Boys touring behind. So who is more loyal?

On the other hand, Brian basically promotes himself, his solo albums, and publicly denigrated the vocal and instrumental abilities of the other Beach Boys (and the wrecking crew). Which means no income for Mike, Al and Carl's estate from the tours or the solo albums, and no promotion of any Beach Boys product.

These are the facts.