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So I'm listening to the Who version of Empty Glass and I just noticed something interesting. Glyn Johns-recorded drums (at least in the case of the Who) always have everything in stereo - even though the snare is usually centered, for example, it's still being picked up by two microphones, so it isn't *dead* center (like a vocal would be).

Yet at a few spots in the song, some drums *are* dead center. Crap, it just got even more interesting...

At about 0:45 I've always noticed the drumming changed. The hi-hat suddenly changes from eigth notes to quarter notes. Some had previously attributed that to poor playing by Keith Moon. Yet at that very moment, the drum sound changes from (more or less) dead center mono to stereo. Seems like that's an overdub of some sort for the intro.

During the "I've had enough of the way things are being done" parts there are some drums dead center, although perhaps those are simply the bass drums, which probably *would* be dead center. Not sure on that, though.

Then, at 5:02, there's a snare dead center on two and four which seems to be there to beef things up. That *has* to be an overdub. Either Keith wasn't playing through some of those parts (live), or the tracks were mixed down.

I think I'd agree with Fang that Keith's drumming is better on there than most of the songs on the album proper.

Didn't just Keith and John just add overdubs to Pete's demo?

That's how the story goes, yes. Although 1) those spots are very clearly different from the basic drum track, overdub or live, and 2) the demo on the Music Must Change boot is totally different. That's not to say Pete didn't make more than one demo, but I guess I'm not totally certain that *was* originally a demo.

Well, I wouldn't go as far as Fang...I think there's a lot of empty room in the arrangement that I would normally be expecting Keith to fill.

That said, spot-on observations regarding the drumming. I don't have the liner notes at hand...this is a vintage mix, right?

-D

Xenu wrote:Well, I wouldn't go as far as Fang...I think there's a lot of empty room in the arrangement that I would normally be expecting Keith to fill.

I wouldn't disagree, but for a lot of the album he doesn't do much beyond tapping out on the hi-hat and snare.

That said, spot-on observations regarding the drumming. I don't have the liner notes at hand...this is a vintage mix, right?

This is what the notes say:

EMPTY GLASS 6'23
(Pete Townshend) © 1978 Towser Tunes, Inc. (adm. By Longitude Music, Co.) - BMI
Recorded at Ramport in April, 1978.
Originally titled 'Choirboy', this is a rough mix of a group version of a song that eventually became the title track on Pete's second solo album. It features John and Keith playing over one of Pete's demos. Note the acoustic guitar and Entwistle's rare bass harmonics in the introduction.
Previously unreleased.

(Thanks to Brian C for the transcription).

No mention about original vs. remix. Although if it was actually a demo it *should* have mention of Pete's studios, which it doesn't. Of course that could be because of the liner notes team...

Well, one thing it doesn't really sound like (again, IIRC) is most of the vintage WAY mixes.

I guess I'd assume it's a remix, but I've never heard another copy of that take/version.

Great song, and great version. The only thing it's missing are the "doo-wop, do-wop" backing vocals.

lukpac wrote:Of course that could be because of the liner notes team...

LOVE IS COMING DOWN 4'05
(Pete Townshend) © 1978 Towser Tunes, Inc. (adm. By Longitude Music, Co.) - BMI
Recorded at Ramport Studios on October 18, 1977. Ted Astley's strings were added in December

LOVE IS COMING DOWN (WORK-IN-PROGRESS MIX) 4'06
(Pete Townshend) © 1978 Towser Tunes, Inc. (adm. By Longitude Music, Co.) - BMI
Recorded at Ramport in April 1978.
This version of the song features different piano and bass parts, and has only a guide vocal.
Previously unreleased.

Huh? The "work-in-progress" version was done several months *after* the master? Dito for the "lost verse mix" of WAY.

Not that anyone cares, but there's a smattering of similar overdubs here and there on the album. New Song has some sections where there seems to be that same snare overdub, for example. Also some cymbal overdubs near the end of Had Enough.

I've just never heard of Keith doing overdubs to "fill in the gaps" before...

I've always assumed the drums tracks on that LP were Frankensteined together from whatever competent performances they were able to get out of Keith. I recall reading accounts of those sessions talking about how they were lucky to get Keith "on" for more than fifteen minutes at a time...

Ryan

Fun with OOPS

Those drum overdubs just vanish...

It sounds like the "live" drum track was faded out around 1:54, only to return at 2:00.