Hey all,
I've been listening to 20 Golden Greats back to back with the 30th Anniversary Collection as of late, and I have a few questions as to the provenance of a few tracks:
a) "Yes I Will." Now, both sets seem to feature totally different *performances* of this track. Is one the single version and one the album version, or something similar?
b) "Look Through Any Window." 20 Golden Greats has more backing vocals on this track, which is a feature I've heard ascribed to the mono single mix (which I haven't heard). Why doesn't the 30th Anniversary Collection also feature these? (I mean, I know they could have been dubbed directly onto the mix, but the *stereo* mix? That's unusual)
In *Which* Hollies Style?
In *Which* Hollies Style?
-------------
"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911
"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911
-
lukpac
- Top Dog and Sellout
- Posts: 4591
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
- Location: Madison, WI
- Contact:
Unforunately, I haven't heard either the remix of mono mix of Look Through Any Window, but I've heard conflicting reports. I *seem* to recall someone saying the mono mix had *fewer* backing vocals, but I could certainly be wrong. I also seem to recall that the remix was an attempt to get closer to the mono mix, but didn't quite get there.
I think Lovely D knows a bit about this.
I think Lovely D knows a bit about this.
The stereo version of "Yes I Will" on 20 GOLDEN GREATS, like most songs from that album, were ADD remixed; a cleaner sound, but at a price. I can't swear it's NOT an alternate take, but on the EMI 3-CD set, the song was not only edited down to its original 45 length, but NR'd(as many from that set were)to more closely match the sonics of the 45's(a bit less NR and this would have been a great comp!)Certain Eq adjustments were also made(just check out the bass on "Bus Stop"!)to get closer to the 45 sound.
The stereo version of "Look Through Any Window" indeed has extra vocals, but the stereo mix is entirely different from the mono 45, which has a deeper bass, a murkier sound, but better vocal harmonies: a tight, good mix with its own quirks. For the stereo version, a few guitar and vocal overdubs not on the mono version were added, and the overall sound lacks the intensity of the 45. The EMI 3-CD set tried to rectify this, fashioning an atttempt at a 45 mix losing the vocals and lowering the guitar in places; sounds close, but not quite, and still doesn't match the 45(not that it could).
THE HOLLIES AT ABBEY ROAD 1963-1966, a UK CD from '97. It suffers from Peter Mew's NR-fixated remastering, but it does offer all the 45 master takes from the first UK single("(Ain't That)Just Like Me")through "Stop Stop Stop"(all in the original MONO). If you have any kind of equalizing in your system, push the upper mids a little, maybe 2db; not perfect, but closer to the truth. But those original Parlophone 45's(I only have a few)have not been matched, IMO.
Hope this helps, pal.
ED
The stereo version of "Look Through Any Window" indeed has extra vocals, but the stereo mix is entirely different from the mono 45, which has a deeper bass, a murkier sound, but better vocal harmonies: a tight, good mix with its own quirks. For the stereo version, a few guitar and vocal overdubs not on the mono version were added, and the overall sound lacks the intensity of the 45. The EMI 3-CD set tried to rectify this, fashioning an atttempt at a 45 mix losing the vocals and lowering the guitar in places; sounds close, but not quite, and still doesn't match the 45(not that it could).
THE HOLLIES AT ABBEY ROAD 1963-1966, a UK CD from '97. It suffers from Peter Mew's NR-fixated remastering, but it does offer all the 45 master takes from the first UK single("(Ain't That)Just Like Me")through "Stop Stop Stop"(all in the original MONO). If you have any kind of equalizing in your system, push the upper mids a little, maybe 2db; not perfect, but closer to the truth. But those original Parlophone 45's(I only have a few)have not been matched, IMO.
Hope this helps, pal.
ED
When remixing vintage tapes, imagine you are back in the time those recordings were made, and mix accordingly. forget Today's Sound Sensibilities....
Whoah whoah whoah...wait. "Yes I Will" was remixed on 20 Golden Greats? I thought that entire set used original mixes? FWIW, the version on 20 Golden Greats starts out with "Yes I will, yes I will" right as the song begins, while the 30th Anniversary version has an intro and what sounds like a totally different take of the song *shrug*.
I actually think I have the mono Look Through on the second Abbey Road disc. So the lack of vocals on the 30th Anniversary was done on purpose? Innteresting.
-D
I actually think I have the mono Look Through on the second Abbey Road disc. So the lack of vocals on the 30th Anniversary was done on purpose? Innteresting.
-D
Xenu wrote:Whoah whoah whoah...wait. "Yes I Will" was remixed on 20 Golden Greats? I thought that entire set used original mixes? FWIW, the version on 20 Golden Greats starts out with "Yes I will, yes I will" right as the song begins, while the 30th Anniversary version has an intro and what sounds like a totally different take of the song *shrug*.
I actually think I have the mono Look Through on the second Abbey Road disc. So the lack of vocals on the 30th Anniversary was done on purpose? Interesting.
-D
Hi, D.
Knew I could smoke ya out....but as a friend and pro/antagonist I missed you. Hello again.
Of course 20 GOLDEN was AAD, not ADD; very obvious. "I Can't Let Go" with the mono bridge....Mike Callahan thought it was ADD, but, if it were, he would have caught the obvious, that a remix cannot have a mono bridge. FWIW, "Yes I Will" and "Window" are as close as Furmanek could get to the mono mixes. He at least found all the stereo he could, while trying to match up the old mono 45's as close to stereo as possible. "Window" was an honest attempt; he got close. "Yes I Will" on the 3-CD comp has studio talk but runs about equal to the 45. FWIW, I think the long version is one take, the 45 a composite of probably two, most of it on the version you hear in stereo, but with an edit or two from another take(or two). It's hard to be sure.
ED
When remixing vintage tapes, imagine you are back in the time those recordings were made, and mix accordingly. forget Today's Sound Sensibilities....
-
lukpac
- Top Dog and Sellout
- Posts: 4591
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
- Location: Madison, WI
- Contact:
Let me make some general comments about Ron Furmanek...:
In Ron's world, "clean" seemed to be the name of the game. Most of his remixes had a very modern sound to them. Match the sound of an old mix? Forget about it. That was especially true when it came to echo. I've talked with someone who worked with Ron, and apparently not only did he not like the sound of a lot of vintage echo (Abbey Road included), he actually made a point to *not* try and recreate the original sound. "I know better than they did."
Yeah, a lot of his mixes are interesting for what they are. But the sound of the originals (mono or stereo) they ain't.
In Ron's world, "clean" seemed to be the name of the game. Most of his remixes had a very modern sound to them. Match the sound of an old mix? Forget about it. That was especially true when it came to echo. I've talked with someone who worked with Ron, and apparently not only did he not like the sound of a lot of vintage echo (Abbey Road included), he actually made a point to *not* try and recreate the original sound. "I know better than they did."
Yeah, a lot of his mixes are interesting for what they are. But the sound of the originals (mono or stereo) they ain't.
No argument! That's why something as seemingly shallow as the '73 Hollies' GREATEST HITS CD on Epic should be sought out, along with a comp titled, I believe, ALL THE HITS....AND MORE. But, Furmanek provided every mono-only B-side in stereo, and found the long lost "Do The Best You Can" stereo master(though it may be the worst Hollies single of all). He did some good work with certain tracks, totally screwed up others. As always, collector's curse.... 
ED
ED
When remixing vintage tapes, imagine you are back in the time those recordings were made, and mix accordingly. forget Today's Sound Sensibilities....
-
Meurglys3VDGG
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 12:36 pm
- Location: Central PA
- Contact:
Ed Bishop wrote:and found the long lost "Do The Best You Can" stereo master(though it may be the worst Hollies single of all).
ED
Whoa....You mean to tell me that you prefer "Dragging My Heels" to "Do The Best You Can"?
I personally dig "Do The Best You Can" although I think their best single only track was "Listen To Me"
Keith
Congrats on the forum Luke, You were a shaft of gold amongst all the darkness over in that "idol worship" forum.
