Looking To Get Some Zappa
I've only heard the Rykodisc CD's, but there's always been something 'off' about that sound. I'm not sure how much of it is mastering, but I'm sure the mixing is the main reason. Kind of a 'whitened' sound, like what you hear on the Rykodisc Bowie CDs but to a greater degree. Less warmth, like a total solid-state sound plus they EQ'ed stuff out of the warm spots.
"When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it. After my experience, I have come to hate war." – Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Neither slave nor tyrant." - Basque motto
"Neither slave nor tyrant." - Basque motto
None of that is Ryko's fault, though; in fact, in the current catalogue I can't think offhand of anything they actually "mastered." It's all the ZFT.
I know what you mean, though. The entire "Stage" series has an odd, almost "brittle" approach to mixing and mastering. Zappa had a very distinct idea of what he wanted his live "sound" to be on disc. You then hear unofficial stuff (i.e. those board tapes of the Fillmore concerts, Rotterdam 1980) and it's almost shocking how much dynamic range he tended to get rid of.
I know what you mean, though. The entire "Stage" series has an odd, almost "brittle" approach to mixing and mastering. Zappa had a very distinct idea of what he wanted his live "sound" to be on disc. You then hear unofficial stuff (i.e. those board tapes of the Fillmore concerts, Rotterdam 1980) and it's almost shocking how much dynamic range he tended to get rid of.
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"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911
"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911
J_Partyka wrote:Xenu wrote:My mono copy of Money is a CDR taken from a cassette taken from a noisy LP.
I think I might have the same one. I haven't listened to it in a few years, but I remember it sounding pretty bad. I should dig it out tonight...
Well, I dug it out, and it doesn't sound nearly as bad as I remembered. It's more than listenable, and just good enough to make resisting the temptation to shell out for an actual mono LP a little easier.
Plus there are several bonus tracks that sound like rough mixes (in VERY rough fidelity), including an uncensored "Harry, You're a Beast."
Might that be the CDR that I sourced, actually? It was one of the first CDR projects I attempted...and I could probably do a better job at this point. I included the entire mono mix, plus the two Mothermania things, plus a few of the more interesting "acetate" versions (of which I think I now have a better source). Thing is, I overworked the thing a bit attempting to get it to sound acceptable. Is there a HUGE bass/treble boost right when the piano part ends in "Absolutely Free?" And is the Mothermania "Idiot Bastard Son" slowed down to mimic the album version's speed?
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"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911
"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911
Xenu wrote:Is there a HUGE bass/treble boost right when the piano part ends in "Absolutely Free?" And is the Mothermania "Idiot Bastard Son" slowed down to mimic the album version's speed?
Yes on both counts. The disc has 28 tracks, and the lineup seems to be exactly as you described. (I actually got the disc from another FLO member, so I bet it's yours.)
So your source for the mono album was a cassette of the LP? If so, it sounds better than I would have thought it could. If you ever get around to doing an improved version, I'd like to hear how it comes out.
Actually I would still love to have a copy of the mono LP to play on my turntable. Even on the CD-R, it seems like I can hear enough on cuts like "Concentration Moon" to make me think the overall fidelity would be superior to that of my stereo Verve LP. (I played that tonight, and it's amazing how much it sounds like my Ryko CD ... i.e., dull and muffled on most cuts.)
J_Partyka wrote:
Yes on both counts. The disc has 28 tracks, and the lineup seems to be exactly as you described. (I actually got the disc from another FLO member, so I bet it's yours.)
I almost forgot I made that thing! Yeah, that was forever ago...probably around 1998.
So your source for the mono album was a cassette of the LP? If so, it sounds better than I would have thought it could. If you ever get around to doing an improved version, I'd like to hear how it comes out.
It's actually kind of a fun story, and I bet enough time has passed so that nobody will care if I spill it. I discovered the existence of the mono versions of the first three really early on, and I was *very* eager to hear the mono Money, which had rapidly become My Favorite Thing Ever. So I inquired about it on AFFZ, and got basically zero response: nobody had the thing, and few people had ever seen it.
At the time, I had some sort of email correspondence with Greg Russo going...about his Zombies book, mix variations that I thought he had missed, that sort of thing. Well, turns out Greg has copies of the mono first three. He taped them (along with some other stuff) and sent them over. I wanted CDR versions, and promptly farmed out a transcription job to Chris...Maxfield? Maxwell? He was zappalvr@aol at the time...could still be, for all I know. Anyway, he was a dream, and transferred a LOT of stuff for me at the time: the Rhino Turtle Soup, my reference versions of Uncle Meat and Hot Rats (not from perfect LPs, but he got a great tonality out of 'em), and the cassettes in question. Upon getting his CDRs, I went through and "fixed" Money (I did it track by track, which means there're probably SBEs galore...oh well). I used some NR, and some EQ to try to combat the cassettiness of it all. It isn't a horrible job, but I could do better nowadays, I think.
Thing is, I really wish I could get a better rip to begin with. It seems sort of silly to try another pass at that when there're obvious difficulties in the source!
Actually I would still love to have a copy of the mono LP to play on my turntable. Even on the CD-R, it seems like I can hear enough on cuts like "Concentration Moon" to make me think the overall fidelity would be superior to that of my stereo Verve LP. (I played that tonight, and it's amazing how much it sounds like my Ryko CD ... i.e., dull and muffled on most cuts.)
I have three Money LPs, and two in a condition worth comparing. My US Verve, as JWB will attest, sounds horrible. The balance is off, the entire thing is muffled, and it's just ech. My Canadian Verve sounds much, much better. It doesn't beat hte CD in most places, though.
I also get the feeling that the mono version (much like the mono version of Safe as Milk) might offer a genuinely higher-fidelity experience; besides, I doubt the tapes have been mucked with since the album's original release. I wonder if this rumored MoFi version of the album would be M/S? Probably not, given how many metric tons of sack that company sucks nowadays.
-D
Xenu wrote:Upon getting his CDRs, I went through and "fixed" Money (I did it track by track, which means there're probably SBEs galore...oh well). I used some NR, and some EQ to try to combat the cassettiness of it all. It isn't a horrible job, but I could do better nowadays, I think.
Not a horrible job by any means. Considering that was your source, it sounds rather good!
Xenu wrote:I also get the feeling that the mono version (much like the mono version of Safe as Milk) might offer a genuinely higher-fidelity experience; besides, I doubt the tapes have been mucked with since the album's original release.
Well, I may know soon enough. I bit the bullet and ordered that promo mono LP from the listing I linked to in my earlier post. I have some other LPs, maybe even some DCC and MoFi CDs, I can sell to cover the cost. I just really need this LP in my collection.
Assuming my order goes through (the seller's listing was current as of a few weeks ago) and I get the LP safely, I'll be sure to post my impressions.
Xenu wrote:You'll post your impressions and copy to CD posthaste, you mean.
Obviously, yes.
Xenu wrote:Next: Lumpy Gravy mono!
Oh, I wish ... I think between this, the Flaming Lips Soft Bulletin and UK mono "White Album" LPs I just received, and the pile of Beach Boys LPs I've bought over the past weeks, I'm tapped out for a while ...
Last edited by J_Partyka on Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
J_Partyka wrote:Assuming my order goes through (the seller's listing was current as of a few weeks ago) and I get the LP safely, I'll be sure to post my impressions.
Just got the email ... The order has indeed gone through, and the seller has shipped the LP already. With any luck I should have it in my hands on or before Saturday ...
