Looking To Get Some Zappa

Just what the name says.
Larkston Zinazpic
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Looking To Get Some Zappa

Postby Larkston Zinazpic » Sun May 08, 2005 9:26 am

I don't have much FZ material yet, but every time I hear a "Zappathon" on the college radio stations out here I am more and more intrigued. It's probably some of the best radio I get to hear all year.

The consensus seems to be that the CDs suck in general, which is the main reason why I don't just dive right into that massive catalogue. And I notice that the DJs who play Zappa on the radio tend to play a lot of vinyl. Should I just look for FZ on vinyl and avoid the CDs altogether? The AU20s I have are fine but I think Ryko only did two albums that way?



...

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JWB
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Postby JWB » Sun May 08, 2005 10:01 am

You've come to the right place. Xenu runs a website, hosetd here, and I'm also a contibutor/expert.

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/

In my opinion, the following CD's are safe to buy, the current CD versions unless noted:

Freak Out! (different than vinyl)
Absolutely Free
Apostrophe (Au20 gold)
One Size Fits All (Au20 gold)
Sheik Yerbouti (UK EMI only)
Orchestral Favorites
Joe's Garage
Tinsel-Town Rebellion (current pressings!)
Shut Up & Play Yer Guitar
You Are What You Is (current pressings!)
Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch
The Man from Utopia (a lot different than vinyl)
Baby Snakes
The London Symphony Orchestra (volumes 1-2)
Boulez Conducts Zappa: The Perfect Stranger
Them Or Us (different than vinyl)
Thing-Fish (different than vinyl)
Francesco Zappa
Frank Zappa Meets the Mothers of Prevention
Does Humor Belong in Music?
Jazz from Hell
Guitar
You Can't Do That on Stage Anymore (volumes 1-6)
Broadway the Hard Way
The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life
Make a Jazz Noise Here
Playground Psychotics
Ahead of Their Time
The Yellow Shark
Civilization Phaze III
The Lost Episodes
Läther
Have I Offended Someone?
Everything Is Healing Nicely
FZ:OZ
Halloween [DVD-audio with some video content]
Joe's Corsage
Joe's Domage
QuAUDIOPHILIAC [DVD-Audio]

You'll wanna stick with the vinyl for everything else. Most of the early albums totally blow on CD.

The Au20's are well worth buying. They were done fresh from the original LP masters, and bear no resemblance to the standard CD's. Far more drastic difference than the Bowies.

The first thing you should buy, in my opinion, is the Lather 3-CD set. It's an unreleased 5 LP set. The material is classic Zappa of all varieties, and the CD mastering is exemplary.

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dcooper
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Postby dcooper » Sun May 08, 2005 11:34 am

That's a great list, JWB and I agree with most everything there. Xenu's website is a great resource on the sound quality of the various CD & vinyl releases.

I would recommend you start with the 6 volumes of You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore. Zappa faithfully recorded most of his concerts - particularly in the 70s and 80s - and in fact some of his "studio" albums, such as Sheik Yerbouti, were actually recorded live and then heavily overdubbed in the studio. Since neither of the comps, "Strictly Commercial" and "Have I Offended Someone?", come anywhere near being comprehensive overviews, the YCDTOSA volumes are a great place to go and sample his material and get a sense of the terrific bands he assembled over the years. They also have extensive liner notes which detail the albums on which the songs first appear, which makes choosing where to look next a lot easier.

Good luck wading through his catalog. It's very much worth the effort.
Dan

The language and concepts contained herein are
guaranteed not to cause eternal torment in the
place where the guy with the horns and pointed
stick conducts his business. - FZ

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dcooper
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Postby dcooper » Sun May 08, 2005 11:37 am

Also, IMHO, the 1988 band, dubbed "the best band you never heard in your life," was the pinnacle of FZ's stage work. There are 3 volumes of this band live - "The Best Band...", "Broadway the Hard Way," and "Make A Jazz Noise Here." This band is also has several tracks on the YCDTOSA volumes. I would definitely recommend you check out those 3 live CDs.
Dan



The language and concepts contained herein are

guaranteed not to cause eternal torment in the

place where the guy with the horns and pointed

stick conducts his business. - FZ

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JWB
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Postby JWB » Sun May 08, 2005 11:49 am

Yeah, the 88 live shit is really good. I don't care at all for "Broadway The Hard Way" though.

damianm
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Postby damianm » Sun May 08, 2005 12:33 pm

Is the Ryko CD of We're Only In It For The Money that bad?

I mean, yes it does sound like shit, but did that album ever sound much better?

I've never heard the vinyl or any other CD issue (if there were any), but seeing how the final master sounds like it was assembled out of a thousand tiny pieces, how good could it be expected to sound, really?

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dcooper
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Postby dcooper » Sun May 08, 2005 12:43 pm

JWB wrote:Yeah, the 88 live shit is really good. I don't care at all for "Broadway The Hard Way" though.


Then it's a full helping of confinement loaf for you, pal.
Dan



The language and concepts contained herein are

guaranteed not to cause eternal torment in the

place where the guy with the horns and pointed

stick conducts his business. - FZ

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dudelsack
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Postby dudelsack » Sun May 08, 2005 4:42 pm

damianm wrote:Is the Ryko CD of We're Only In It For The Money that bad?

I mean, yes it does sound like shit, but did that album ever sound much better?

I've never heard the vinyl or any other CD issue (if there were any), but seeing how the final master sounds like it was assembled out of a thousand tiny pieces, how good could it be expected to sound, really?


I have a mono yellow-label radio promo. It doesn't sound a heck of a lot better, frankly.

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Xenu
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Postby Xenu » Sun May 08, 2005 6:52 pm

dcooper wrote:
I would recommend you start with the 6 volumes of You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore.


Hey. I actually disagree (mostly due to the fact that the Stage series seems to be skewed heavily towards the '80s era bands, which are Not My Favorite), but to each his own.

Zappa faithfully recorded most of his concerts - particularly in the 70s and 80s - and in fact some of his "studio" albums, such as Sheik Yerbouti, were actually recorded live and then heavily overdubbed in the studio. Since neither of the comps, "Strictly Commercial" and "Have I Offended Someone?", come anywhere near being comprehensive overviews, the YCDTOSA volumes are a great place to go and sample his material and get a sense of the terrific bands he assembled over the years.


"Commercial" has its faults--it misses several obvious completist inclusions for several bizarre choices (does that much Overnight Sensation really need to be there? Why "Let's Make the Water Turn Black" instead of the single of Lonely Little Girl? Sexual Harassment in the Workplace?), but I think it's a perfectly servicable comp. And "Offended" is mostly collector-fodder, being as it's around 60% alternate versions.

I stand firmly behind my site's wisdom, though, in heralding the awesomeness of the "Left of the Dial" promo compilation. That thing is AMAZING in its breadth, and if you can find a copy cheap, go for it!

Also, IMHO, the 1988 band, dubbed "the best band you never heard in your life," was the pinnacle of FZ's stage work. There are 3 volumes of this band live - "The Best Band...", "Broadway the Hard Way," and "Make A Jazz Noise Here." This band is also has several tracks on the YCDTOSA volumes. I would definitely recommend you check out those 3 live CDs.


Once again, I kind of disagree. I like some of the late 80s stuff, but IMO he was still attempting to rise above the absolute nadir of the '84 tour, and he really doesn't sound that into it. The '88 tour isn't as sterile and perfunctory as the '84 tour, but...

If I may digress for a second...some people enjoy pointing out that Zappa is a scornful, hateful bastard. I don't think this is true at all. Listen to the '70s live stuff, for example...he's having a great time, isn't taking himself too seriously, etc. (his detached, '60s persona was mostly an "act," as is painfully obvious most of the time).

Problematically, as the 80s approach, this situation changes for the worse. He's no longer pretending to be a jerk to get a reaction; he actually *becomes* a jerk. Throughout the mid-to-late 80s tours he is sour, looks unwell, and takes himself way too seriously. By '88 he's beginning to lighten up somewhat, but that doesn't save "Broadway the Hard Way" from being an absolute bore to listen to (nevermind poorly produced! That album really Does Not Sound Good. Listen to "Why Don't They Like Me" and ponder why it sounds so bad, and why all of the edits are clear as day).

damiann wrote:Is the Ryko CD of We're Only In It For The Money that bad?

I mean, yes it does sound like shit, but did that album ever sound much better?

I've never heard the vinyl or any other CD issue (if there were any), but seeing how the final master sounds like it was assembled out of a thousand tiny pieces, how good could it be expected to sound, really?


It's not really that bad. Could parts of it sound better? Maybe. Lots of it sounds better than it ever did on vinyl, though.

The remix would suggest that the multitracks could be remixed into a higher-fidelity listening experience.

Dudelsack wrote:I have a mono yellow-label radio promo. It doesn't sound a heck of a lot better, frankly.


WHAATTTTTT?

Do you have the ability to transfer it to CD?

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dudelsack
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Postby dudelsack » Sun May 08, 2005 8:41 pm

I'm moving soon, after which I plan to investigate further making needle drops...I would say that if you could wait two-three months, Xenu, there's a pretty good shot of me trying to make that happen.

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krabapple
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Postby krabapple » Mon May 09, 2005 12:52 am

I see no reason to exclude 'Roxy & Elsewhere' from the list -- unless you *absolutely have to hear* the LP mix of 'Cheepnis'. I'd say the CD sounds better than the LP for all the usual reasons a Cd sounds better than its LP counterpart.
"I recommend that you delete the Rancid Snakepit" - Grant

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Xenu
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Postby Xenu » Mon May 09, 2005 2:13 pm

I still get the feeling that Roxy could sound better. Besides, there are CDs that include the original mix of Cheepnis, and sound otherwise identical to the current stock CD.

"Them Or Us" is a weird case. The overall timbre of the thing is massively improved on the reissue (the original Ryko Does Not Sound Great, and I'm gonna have to cross reference the EMI to see if it sounds any better), but there's the usual assortment of right-channel weirdness going on.

"Absolutely Free" is also clearly futzed with. I'd prefer that the layer of digital reverb be removed if at all possible.
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dudelsack
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Postby dudelsack » Mon May 09, 2005 4:35 pm

X - I checked last night, sorry for the false alarm - my yellow label mono promo is of Absolutely Free. Senior moment. :shock:

Still happy to make a ND down the road.

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Xenu
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Postby Xenu » Mon May 09, 2005 5:19 pm

BOOOO!

My mono copy of Money is a CDR taken from a cassette taken from a noisy LP. I've had opportunities to buy mono pressings in the past, but when opportunity=pay $200 for this, well...

I have to believe that someone has a mono copy of this lying around! The mix differences are actually pretty fascinating (barring "Idiot Bastard Son," which I think is a fold-down).

-D
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"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911

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J_Partyka
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Postby J_Partyka » Tue May 31, 2005 3:22 pm

Xenu wrote:My mono copy of Money is a CDR taken from a cassette taken from a noisy LP.


I think I might have the same one. I haven't listened to it in a few years, but I remember it sounding pretty bad. I should dig it out tonight; my interest in this album has revived recently, but I too am reluctant to pay $200 for an actual LP ...