Hoffman's Buddy Holly compilation

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

Guess some of you may have noticed this SHite thread:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showt ... ge=1&pp=20

Only at SHtv could a fucked up CD (most copies out of phase -- mono tape transferred using a stereo deck) like this can still be defended as the "greatest" simply because it was mastered by Steve.

Yet the funniest thing about this thread is that not one single SHite points out that all of the tracks on Hoffman's disc are readily available in superior sound on other, non-Hoffman mastered discs:

Buddy Holly 1988 MCA CD. Mastered by Paul Elmore. Half of the 12 tracks of this 1957 LP are on Hoffman's disc. Compared to Elmore's rendering, Hoffman's tracks sound veiled and murky. Strangely, no one seems to have ever heard this 1988 Elmore CD. Google searches turn up zilch about it, but I think it's a sonic gem.

The Buddy Holly Collection 1993 MCA 2 x CD. Mastered by Erick Labson. SHites generally hate this one, because it's 1) not mastered by Skeev, and 2) it doesn't have the murky vinyl Hoffman sound. (SHites: "It's too bright! It's too harsh! Steve's is so smooth!") Each to his own. I personally think this one stomps all over Hoffman's, which sounds rather lifeless in comparison. It also exhibits no phase problems, nor does it have fucked up click that shouldn't be there (that's what the SHites are currently hung up on in their discussion). This one has all of the tracks on Hoffman's skimpy selection, plus 30 more.

If memory serves, Luke hated this one as well, and heaped all sorts of over-the-top praise on Hoffman for his "smooth" mastering, claiming the Labson collection made him run screaming from the room or some such. Ever revisited this disc, Luke?

The Chirping Crickets and Buddy Holly. 2004 Decca/Universal remasters w/ bonus tracks. Labson at bat again; hits it out of the park. Enough said.

Why in the world Hoffman's disc has a reputation of "one of the greatest sounding CDs I own!" is simply mindboggling, particularly when there are at least 3 other choices out there that are all clearly superior.

[dudelsack]

I don't know, I've got the version of the Hoffman disc that's IN phase, and I think it does sound particularly great. "Clearly superior" is your opinion...

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

And have you compared it to the other three versions out there?

Of course it's my opinion, but I've provided comparisons and cursory evidence as to why I feel that is so.

Now, your "particularly great" assessment of the Hoffman disc is your opinion -- and an unsubstantiated one at that.

Sorry, dudelsack. You're going to have to do better than thumb-sucking sulking.

[dudelsack]

No, actually. Have you heard the IN PHASE version of the Hoffman disc?

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

nt

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

I have both the ("bad") LP master-derived disc as well as the "good" Japanese-pressed version. (I don't memorize matrix numbers, but the SHite thread can tell you what they are.) Neither one is, strictly speaking, terrible, but I don't think either one is as good as the others that are out there.

I'm happy that you are happy with your Hoffman CD, dudelsack, but you have nothing to compare it to, and you've contributed nothing to the discussion other than unsolicited rah-rah Hoffman cheerleading. A rather pointless exercise, at least from any logical viewpoint.

I'll simply never understand the hypnotic sway old Mullethead has over his flock, somehow compelling his followers to compulsively pipe up with "Steve is great!" pronouncements for any and all occasions. Perhaps being a magnet for the uncritical and illogical must be the source of his magic powers.

[dudelsack]

Hey COLA,
If my honest opinion ("I like this disc") is contributing nothing to your discussion, I apologize. I'm not sure what you mean by "unsolicited" - did you merely post this thread "FYI" and I misunderstood? Must I have heard three or four different masterings of the same material to have an opinion on the material I've already heard? I realize that it's beneficial to compare (and do, often), but I don't think there's any point in this case. I don't like how Labson masters, generally, and I'm already satisfied with my Hoffman disc. I'm not a fucking apologist, thank you, but I'll ask to make sure: is expressing an opinion that differs from yours now verboten? I'll be careful not to disagree with you again, Professor.
You and Steve should conduct a seminar in how to most crankily dismiss/discourage differing viewpoints. I hear Ed Bishop's available to moderate the panel, and Grant gets a company discount on refreshments.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

I believe that you are confusing "honesty" with "ignorance". The difference between Hoffman and me, dudelsack, is that Skeev dismisses and deflects whenever he is backed into a corner by those who question and (horrors) provide evidence that conflicts with his bullshit claims. I, on the other hand, expect a certain measure of informed opinion and welcome all contentious viewpoints -- so long as they are actually based on something, anything.

Now, if the response is a mere "my Steve CD sounds great to me, and I neither know nor care about any others," well, then why should I care one way or another how you feel about that? You're obviously not interested in the topic, and that's all well and good. So what, then, precisely does compel you to a) pipe up with how great your Hoffman CD sounds to you, and b) dismiss out of hand the foundations laid down for an attempt at a detailed analysis/comparison with a flip "that's just your opinion"?

[dudelsack]

Never mind.

[Surrogate Daddy M.E.]

[lukpac]

FYI, I had the 1993 Labson CD first. I honestly didn't think FTOMT would sound any better. Comparing the two, though, the Labson CD sounds a bit harsher. For sound I'll take FTOMT hands down, although the Labson CD does have a lot of stuff not on that disc. I can't say I've heard the Buddy Holly CD, though.

The "mono tape on a stereo machine" really isn't a huge deal, IMO. If it really bothers you that much, just listen to one of the two channels. Also, FYI, it's not "out of phase". The "good" versions don't have any issues, other than being in stereo. The "bad" versions have the channels offset by one sample, which causes the high end to roll off slightly when played back in mono. But then again, why do that?

[Dob]

The "bad" versions have the channels offset by one sample, which causes the high end to roll off slightly when played back in mono.

I've noticed that offset on a few mono Beach Boys tracks as well. I don't know how prevalent this problem is, but it's gotten to the point that I always check for mono sync if I'm working in Cool Edit (takes about 2 seconds to check). Also, my (non-Canadian) FTOMT Holly CD had the problem of a different frequency response between channels on the mono tracks, except mine wasn't quite as bad as Ocdman's (worst case about 1.8db difference). Good thing that these problems are easy to fix...supposedly all of this started with subsequent pressings and the original SH version is fine (except for the click?). Nevertheless, I agree that having to deal with these problems is BS, and as I mentioned, it's not confined to the SH Holly CD.

I only have one other Holly CD, the gold one done by Glenn Meadows, which is OK (and is in sync for the tracks I checked) but I prefer the Hoffman. I do remember reading praise for the Chirping Crickets CD on the SHtv forum (believe it or not).

[lukpac]

I believe the "click" is simply an anomoly of some sort on the tape. There's one at the start of Oh Boy in one channel as well. If another CD doesn't have it, it's because they used a mono head or used the other "channel" with a stereo head.

[MK]

I have the 'Made in Japan' version. The stereo split doesn't bother me, I've got a ton of jazz CD's that are mono but played back in stereo, too. It drives me nuts on CD's of vintage 78's because of the constantly changing stereo noise, but for the Holly CD, it's not that big a deal to me.

As for the Buddy Holly Collection CD, Labson spikes the treble and slams the meters nowadays, but at this point, he was still mastering okay. It's solid mono, but a little hard sounding. Hardly unlistenable and nothing a tiny bit of EQ or even a good tube system would probably rectify. Besides, there's no fucking way I'm going to scare people off of the Buddy Holly Collection when it's the ONLY collection out there that's got more than 20 measly tracks - 25 per disc, 50 total, only a 4 CD 'Complete' box set would be better, if it ever happens. Plus it's actually got good liner notes and documentation.

[Andreas]

Is the "Rave On" click absent on other Buddy Holly CDs, e.g. the Labson Buddy Holly Collection?