"Raw Power" Millennium Edition

[Beatlesfan03]

I hope I haven't posted this already, and I know some of you don't care for vinyl, but I got this sometime back and I'm pretty happy with it. The vinyl on my copy is quiet, and I'd think that for $6 you can do a lot worse.

(No I don't work for them)

Same price I paid for mine and you're right, the vinyl is quiet.

[Dob]

I finally was able to borrow a copy of the Bowie mix (CD) and I did my first proper A/B comparision with the Iggy mix.

Search and Destroy – The Bowie mix is very pinched sounding, with almost no bass and a huge, screeching lower treble hump (at around 2-3k -- the “a.m. radio” tonality). In fact, I thought at first that one channel might be out of phase, so I reversed one, but that sounded even worse. The Iggy mix, while having more bass (too much, actually) and less lower treble, has a lot of “soft” distortion (like overdriven tubes) which results in a garbled sound, especially noticeable on the vocals. Both versions have problems…if I had to choose one “as is” it would be the Iggy mix, but it seemed to me that the problems with the Bowie mix were fixable using EQ. And although the Iggy mix doesn’t fade out at the end, it lacks the distinctive lead guitar descending arpeggios of the Bowie mix (or they’re mixed so low that I couldn’t hear them). After some tinkering, I came up with an EQed version of the Bowie mix that I’m happy with.

Gimme Danger – Here the Bowie mix goes in the opposite direction – lots of bass and a dull sounding top end. The Iggy mix is much drier (less reverb), but again there is some added distortion. Plus I decided I like the reverb on the Bowie mix, and it would be the one I’d choose “as is.” With some top end boost, I got it to sound even better IMO.

Your Pretty Face – Very sludgy on the Bowie mix…sounds very distant, as if the music is coming from your basement. The tonality on the Iggy mix gives it more presence and it does sound a lot better, but (again) has a lot of distortion. I wondered if the sound of the Bowie mix could be salvaged with some EQ. After adding a ton of treble, I was able to get it to sound decent, and I prefer it to the dry, distorted Iggy mix.

Penetration – On the Bowie mix this has a similar tonality to Your Pretty Face, except it sounds even more distant due to the very heavy reverb. The drums are barely audible. The Iggy mix has much more presence and clarity, as if it was stripped of decades of grunge, and the distortion is much less present than on the previous tracks. After cranking up the treble on the Bowie mix in order to hear what was going on, I still preferred the Iggy mix. The guitars are more prominent and it has a more appropriate amount of reverb, IMO.

Raw Power – The only other Bowie track that “as is” sounds better than the Iggy mix. The tonality of the Bowie is still a bit off, but it’s better than the Iggy, which is again too distorted.

I Need Somebody – More sludge and reverb on the Bowie. The Iggy has more clarity and presence -- the drums actually have some snap. The vocals are distorted on both, more so on the Iggy, but the distortion isn’t quite as piercing to my ears.

Shake Appeal – On the Bowie mix, Iggy sounds like he’s singing live over a tape of the band being played back on a crappy sound system. The Iggy mix has a better balance between Iggy’s voice and the band…the vocals do have more of that “overdriven tube” distortion, but the band sounds so much better that I’ll take the Iggy mix on this one.

Death Trip – Again, the Bowie mix sounds like Iggy is singing over a lousy recording of the band. So while his voice has a nice tonality, the band isn’t loud enough and some of Scott’s drums seem to be coming from a different zip code. The Iggy mix has a more appropriate balance, although the distortion is more obtrusive here, the superiority of the mix makes up for it.

Overall, I was surprised by how much bass the Bowie mix has. The only track that is bass shy is Search and Destroy (which is how I remember the whole mix sounding)…some of the tracks have too much bass. Also, I was struck by the tonality differences from track to track on both mixes. I never was all that fond of the added distortion on the remix, and now I like the distortion even less, but I do find it tolerable at least part of the time.

The Iggy remix, IMO, is successful on four tracks – Penetration, I Need Somebody, Shake Appeal, and Death Trip. For the other tracks, a remaster instead of a remix would have been better.

[Rspaight]

Man, I totally forgot about this, but it's worth it.

I dug out the Rhino "No Thanks!" box and checked out the version of "Search and Destroy" therein. While the notes explicitly state that it's the remix, the mastering is *competely* different. There's no hard limiting in evidence *at all* on the Rhino version, and the Columbia remix CD is a solid green bar.

Here's an MP3 sample of the Rhino track:

http://members.iglou.com/rspaight/sdrhinobox.mp3

It's still distorted as hell, but as least it doesn't feel like it's pounding nails into your sinuses.

If anyone can set me up with the Bowie mix CD, PM me...

Ryan

[Chris M]

Wow That doesn't sound that bad. Still no bass but I'll take that over the Bowie mix or the maxed out remix CD. If we only had the whole album like that.

[Chris M]

The tracklists of the upcoming Deluxe Editions below...

http://keepkey.yochanan.net/iggy.htm

[JWB]

The tracklists of the upcoming Deluxe Editions below...

http://keepkey.yochanan.net/iggy.htm

Are they gonna use the original mixes?

[Chris M]

The tracklists of the upcoming Deluxe Editions below...

http://keepkey.yochanan.net/iggy.htm

Are they gonna use the original mixes?

Yep, even much of the bonus material on the first album is unused vintage 1969 mixes.

[Dob]

I dug out the Rhino "No Thanks!" box and checked out the version of "Search and Destroy" therein. While the notes explicitly state that it's the remix, the mastering is *competely* different. There's no hard limiting in evidence *at all* on the Rhino version, and the Columbia remix CD is a solid green bar.

It does sound better, there is less distortion. Rhino cranked up the bass even more...IMO they overdid it, but comparing to my remaster of the Bowie version, mine sure does sound anemic! And I added about 12db of bass!

Unfortunately, the Rhino still has a very processed sound. On the Bowie mix, Iggy's vocal is prominent and actually has a bit of space and presence. Here, it's practically buried. I appreciate the lack of harshness, but the midrange/treble is too neutered for my taste. Part of that is probably the mix itself, though.

[Stretcher Case]

I like what Rhino did here. I just compared to both the original CBS and the Rough Power mix, and there's a cohesiveness here, especially with the drums, that's always been missing.

On "Search & Destroy", Iggy's vocal track on the original CBS has always sounded "pasted on" after the fact. There's separation, but it sounds like Iggy is in a different studio, down the road.

[Dob]

I like what Rhino did here. I just compared to both the original CBS and the Rough Power mix, and there's a cohesiveness here, especially with the drums, that's always been missing.

The drums are much better on the Iggy mix (in general) as well IMO.

On "Search & Destroy", Iggy's vocal track on the original CBS has always sounded "pasted on" after the fact. There's separation, but it sounds like Iggy is in a different studio, down the road.

Right...as I noted above, some of the other tracks that sound even worse in that regard. I guess I've heard S&D so many times, though, that the "pasted on" vocal now sounds like the proper one.

Also, on the Iggy mix, the cool descending guitar arpeggios near the end of the song are mixed/EQed so low that they're almost inaudible. Ryan's clip wasn't long enough to hear that, but I'd bet it's the same.