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Been a Pink Floyd fan most of my life, however, I avoided this album like the plague for the same reasons and opinions of many out there. However, when I heard about the remaster in 2004, I thought I'd check it out figuring it be by Doug Sax and his work has been great on the catalog.

Travel back to me to 2004 and this thread:

http://tinyurl.com/7xnre

I made some useless comments in there but that's not the point. In the end, I bypassed it simply based on the first post in the thread.

Fast forward to this year and I'm in Best Buy and on a whim, I decided to pick up this "unlistenable," "wretched," "completely no-noised to death" CD. And yes, I know that "The Final Cut" isn't exactly an item that screams impulse buy but I just happened to be on a Floyd kick lately and thought it was time to face my fears.

First, I was surprised at how much I ended up liking the album. It's not something that I'd probably play as frequently as say "Wish You Were Here," but it definitely has some interesting things on it.

Second, I was expecting that after listening to it, the horrendous sound quality would drive me to murder my first born and cause me to inflict grave bodily harm on myself. Surprisingly enough, no thoughts of ill-will crossed my mind and I actually found James Guthrie's sound on the disc to be fairly consistent with Sax's remasters in the catalog (thought I'm confused as to why they would go back and do this one since I'm sure Sax did a commendable job. Perhaps a possible SACD muckup?).

I actually heard quite a bit of hiss on this "completely no-noised" recording. Even in his post of the sample of "The Gunner's Dream," zloch states there's some hiss there. Can't have hiss if it's no-noised. Unless I don't understand the concept of noise reduction. And maybe it's just me, but I could not hear the pumping he describes. It would seem strange for Guthrie to no-noise the vocals, but leave hiss elsewhere on the disc.

Also, the CD has quite a bit of dynamic range. See his waveform post on page 3 of the thread, yes the remaster is louder than it's original counterpart, but hardly compressed and maximized to death (as some others on the thread stated). If anyone's interested, I could post some waveforms of different tracks off the disc.

So I guess in my usual roundabout way, I'm curious if anyone else hear has heard the disc and what you're thoughts are on it. This is my first and only exposure to "The Final Cut" so I can't compare to anything I've heard in the past with the exception of the "Fletcher" and "Tigers" which were on "Echoes." I think I might try and seek out a Sax remaster just for sake of argument.

Maybe I'm wrong in all this and one of you will set me straight. But like Bonjo in the sh.tv thread, I really don't find this to be the utter crap it was made out to be.

FWIW, I do like the inclusion "When The Tigers Broke Free" on the disc. It seems to make more sense than say "Not Now John" which jumps out and attacks you.

Beatlesfan03 wrote:Can't have hiss if it's no-noised.

Sure it can. Most examples of noise reduction leave *some* hiss.

That said, it doesn't seem to make sense in this case. Has anyone here listened to the two side by side?

I have no experience and very little knowledge about no noise, but some folks say that if it's used sparingly and judiciously, it leaves little or no discernible artifacts. Which, to me, would imply at least *some* remaining hiss. Some no noised CDs sound pretty good to me, but it's hard to say without having heard the "before" version.

SH (for one) has gone on record in saying that, when he tried it, even the slightest amount left audible artifacts and degraded the sound. There's probably a usage "sweet spot," but most tape hiss I've heard is unobtrusive enough that I can hear through it without any effort.

Keep in mind over the years there have been serveral different kinds of noise reduction. Some can simply "harden" the sound, while others leave behind a "grainy" sound. Most used today impart a "garbled" sound not unlike poor MP3 encoding.

I tend to think that most of the people that scream "NOISE REDUCTION" have no idea what NR actually sounds like, nor have done direct comparisons of different CDs/LPs.

Beatlesfan03 wrote:Been a Pink Floyd fan most of my life, however, I avoided this album like the plague for the same reasons and opinions of many out there.

Those are stupid opinions. That album's one of PF's better ones -- I prefer it to The Wall.
It's certainly the best Roger Water solo album out there, as well. ;>

First, I was surprised at how much I ended up liking the album. It's not something that I'd probably play as frequently as say "Wish You Were Here," but it definitely has some interesting things on it.

Listen to it a few times in the right mood* and you will have the deep emotional experience that is undescribed. You might even cry. I have.

*[/kevin nealon whisper: 'johnnywalkerblack']

Second, I was expecting that after listening to it, the horrendous sound quality would drive me to murder my first born and cause me to inflict grave bodily harm on myself. Surprisingly enough, no thoughts of ill-will crossed my mind and I actually found James Guthrie's sound on the disc to be fairly consistent with Sax's remasters in the catalog (thought I'm confused as to why they would go back and do this one since I'm sure Sax did a commendable job. Perhaps a possible SACD muckup?).

It was an anniversary issue, wasn't it? They also added a track(Tigers). Personally I skipped buying this remaster -- the next-to-last remaster was the third or fourth time I'd bought this disc, and ENOUGH is ENOUGH. Until the surround version comes out.

Also, the CD has quite a bit of dynamic range. See his waveform post on page 3 of the thread, yes the remaster is louder than it's original counterpart, but hardly compressed and maximized to death (as some others on the thread stated). If anyone's interested, I could post some waveforms of different tracks off the disc.

OK, so I guess I AM going to have to buy this fucker again. Damn you.

Maybe I'm wrong in all this and one of you will set me straight. But like Bonjo in the sh.tv thread, I really don't find this to be the utter crap it was made out to be.

Then again, what is? The SHtivites are a hysterical lot.

And yes, several light passes of noise reduction can leave some hiss without nasty artifacts.

It's certainly the best Roger Water solo album out there, as well. ;>

Agreed.

I skipped this version as well, for the same reasons as you.

Ryan

I love this record, but already have the prior remaster and the Tigers track on the greatest hits album. So, even if it isn't complete shite, I've not read anything indicating it sounds superior to the prior version. As such, why bother getting it?

I don't think it's a terrible record, but I never could get into it. I did like "Not Now John" enough to save it for a Floyd comp, one of the best things they ever did.

MK wrote:I don't think it's a terrible record, but I never could get into it. I did like "Not Now John" enough to save it for a Floyd comp, one of the best things they ever did.

Agree...I've always loved "Not Now John."

When I first heard it, I was endlessly fascinated by everything going on in "Not Now John" -- all the voices shouting at each other. What a great track for headphones.

Ryan

Which version is the one mastered by Doug Sax? Is it the anniversary edition on Sony?

Alexander Keith wrote:Which version is the one mastered by Doug Sax? Is it the anniversary edition on Sony?

The anniversary issue (the one I have) is mastered by James Guthrie. Doug Sax did the original Final Cut remaster at some point in the 90s.

I also like "Not Now John" though I still think it seems out of place in this somber album.

It sounds like they actually had some fun recording it.

Patrick M wrote:

MK wrote:I don't think it's a terrible record, but I never could get into it. I did like "Not Now John" enough to save it for a Floyd comp, one of the best things they ever did.

Agree...I've always loved "Not Now John."

Never really love dthat one...it's just 'there'. I actually covered it in a band I was in, maybe that left me forever unimpressed.


For me, 'The Hero's Return' is the great track on that one. Followed by three where Gilmour solos -- Possible Pasts, Fletch Memorial, and Final Cut. Hist solo on those are brilliant gems of concision and feeling.