DSOTM Black Triangle or Japan Harvest=Same Mastering?

Just what the name says.
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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:06 pm

What's wrong with the CD layer?
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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JWB
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Re: DSOTM Black Triangle or Japan Harvest=Same Mastering?

Postby JWB » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:09 pm

lukpac wrote:When was THAT theory floated?

Sounds like someone making an excuse for people realizing the UD and UDII (THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A UD1/UDI) are actually the same. "If you say your copies are the same, I *must* have a different UD."


Everybody loaded in their UDI's and checked the peak level of "Eclipse".

Most people matched the UDII exactly, but there were a few people who were a few decibels quieter, most of them people who claimed that their UDI's sounded different.

I'm not sure what became of that theory, though. Maybe someone compared them and figured out they were the same (but different volumes). I don't know.

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Postby Rspaight » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:21 pm

lukpac wrote:What's wrong with the CD layer?


I think that's one of the instances where the two layers have genuinely different masterings (not just a downconvert). I must confess I've never listened to the CD layer on mine. (And rarely to the stereo mix, for that matter. I loves the surround mix.)

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Postby krabapple » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:49 pm

Yes, DSotM is an instance where the CD layer is different from the SACD layer. This was analyzed in depth in Stereophile ..teh CD layer apparently being a victim of the loudness wars.
See this page and the links therefrom:

http://www.stereophile.com//asweseeit/851/


It's no 'Californication', and even the Stereophile golden-ear thought the CD layer sounded better than previous versions in some ways. I would also note that 362 clipped samples isn't really a whole lot, given the number of samples in a track the length of 'Money'. What matters more in this case is how many consecutive clipped samples there are. But it's definitely different from the SACD layer, if this evidence it be believed.

I plan to repeat their analysis at home, eventually. THere also used to be a website where someone independently confirmed this difference, but I've lost it.
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Postby Patrick M » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:34 pm

Luke compared the MasterSound WYWH as well:

http://forums.lukpac.org/viewtopic.php?t=133p=895#895
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Postby Dob » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:42 pm

That's a comparison between the Japan Mastersound WYWH (longbox) and the US Mastersound, correct?
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Postby Patrick M » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:45 pm

It started with this thread:

http://forums.lukpac.org/viewtopic.php?t=61
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Postby Rspaight » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:47 pm

Bah. My longbox Mastersound WYWH rules all. You inferior computer just can't tell the difference.

Ryan
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Postby Phil Elliott » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:12 pm

Re: DSOTM

On the SACD redbook, I couldn't get past the muddy EQ. There's too much going on in the lower mids for my taste. I was hoping for an improvement on my UK made harvest disc (sounds a lot like the black triangle TO mastering - mashed up/compressed sounding top end, complete with clipping clocks - no good). I got hold of a black harvest disc (identical to Greg's) which I'm happy with.

As you've probably guessed, no SACD playback here.
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Postby lukpac » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:55 pm

Ok, I know Ryan posted a list of versions, but can someone (anyone?) post a list like this:

CD info Country of manufacture Country of release

Ie:

Black triangle Japan Japan

Or whatever...
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby krabapple » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:00 pm

The frequency profile of the SACD layer seems to be very similar to that of the CD layer, if Atkinson's article is to be believed. He found that surprising, and so do I. But he didn't actually present the comparative figures/data, so who knows?
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Postby Dob » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:23 pm

In approximate order:

Black Triangle V1 Japan Japan
Black Harvest V1 Japan UK
Gold CD "Eternity" Japan Japan
Black Triangle V2 Japan Japan
Black Harvest V2 Japan UK
Silver Harvest UK UK
Silver Capitol US US (no ring)
Silver Capitol US US (black ring)
UD V1 Japan US
UD V2 Japan US
UDII US US
20th Anniversary Japan Japan
20th Anniversary US US
EMI/Toshiba remaster Japan Japan (black obi)
EMI/Toshiba remaster Japan Japan (gray obi)
Capitol/EMI remaster US US
Shine On Box Set
EMI/Toshiba remaster Japan Japan (mini-LP)
SACD

http://pinkfloydcdscanz.bizland.com/3DA ... NPAGE.html
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Postby Xenu » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:14 pm

Does everyone hate that regular, alternate-cover stock CD that was in print since...what, 1994? I've only heard it twice (borrowed from library, found a MoFi for cheap weeks after), but I can't imagine that it's somehow awful.
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Postby Rspaight » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:17 pm

I used to have it for a short time -- I don't remember it being hideous or anything. That was before Dave NightGort taught me how to listen to music, though, so who knows?

Ryan
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Postby Dob » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:22 pm

It's probably the same mastering (Doug Sax) as on the box set...if so, it's far from awful. IIRC, some SHites called it their preferred version, but I think a lot of those folks later went for the SACD.
Dob

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