Forums dot lukpac.org

A place to discuss music and Mallard Fillmore
It is currently Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:11 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:12 am
Posts: 440
Xenu wrote:
Does anybody seriously want me to do Face Dances or It's Hard? (I think for one of those I actually now have POlydor--from JWB--MCA and WB copies).


Why the fuck not?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:03 am 
Offline
Top Dog and Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Madison, WI
Rspaight wrote:
FWIW, cddb recognizes my MCA copies of It's Hard and Face Dances as exact matches for "It's Hard - Warner Bros." and "Face Dances - Warner Bros."


I'm not saying they aren't the same, but I wouldn't base anything on CDDB/freeDB/whatever. I made a CD-R of my Die Beatles LP and it actually came up as Please Please Me.

_________________
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:41 am
Posts: 535
CDDB and others just use the individual time lengths of the tracks to determine the CD.

The algorithm for that is quite clever (or so I have heard), such that small differences (a few seconds plus or minus) do not matter.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:41 am
Posts: 535
JWB wrote:
I already told David that he'd better write a Who FAQ. White Fang is a bonehead and he needs to be stopped.


Right. I'll gladly contribute or read and correct, but I don't feel competent enough to write it. Also, I don't have the box set. :oops:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:34 pm 
Offline
Top Dog and Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Madison, WI
dudelsack wrote:
This is for the original MCA CD, made in Japan at the JVC plant, catalog # MCAD-37003, matrix info MCAD 37003 M3E 12

EAC extraction logfile from 6. May 2005, 10:44 for CD
Who / Who Are You

Used drive : SAMSUNG DVD-ROM SD-616T Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with C2, accurate stream, NO disable cache
Combined read/write offset correction : 0
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Track 1
Peak level 88.9 %

Track 2
Peak level 96.6 %

Track 3
Peak level 100.0 %

Track 4
Peak level 93.2 %

Track 5
Peak level 96.1 %

Track 6
Peak level 85.7 %

Track 7
Peak level 88.5 %


Track 8
Peak level 73.2 %

Track 9
Peak level 84.4 %


No errors occured


End of status report


I just checked my two copies:

Manufactured in Japan for MCA Records, Inc.
MCAD 37003 1C11

Manufactured and Distributed in Canada by MCA Records Canada
#01010X04 MCBBD-37003 L386 CINRAM

Same peak levels.

_________________
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 6:11 pm
Posts: 27
I have the Warner U.S. and WEA Target(really the Polydor red-face with a different label). I'll post some peak levels, but they're rounded off to the nearest percent(Bias Peak).

It's Hard:


Warner U.S.

85%

79%

79%

80%

76%

77%

77%

66%

68%

100%

71%

66%


Target/Polydor Red Face


90%

73%

72%

73%

72%

83%

75%

67%

72%

81%

74%

71%


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:06 am 
Offline
Top Dog and Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Madison, WI
Xenu wrote:
I finally am unpacked enough to get down to business...I compared the much-vaunted Polydor original CD of Who Are You to a Canadian MCA copy generously donated by JWB.

Here's what Fang says about this:

Quote:
CD (original mix) comments: The Polydor (Germany) sounds wonderful. The MCA (USA) is as dull as a door, drowning in artificial bass. The MFSL is "OK", but doesn't sound anywhere as near as good as the Polydor (Germany).


The MCA issue is slightly louder. When normalized, of course, they cancel out completely. :roll:


According to Fang, this is impossible, and if you believe differently, you are mentally ill. Thus I can only surmise you are mentally ill.

Xenu wrote:
Did he, like, just make everything up, or does everyone happen to stumble upon "good" pressings of everything?


Back when he actually listened to things...

_________________
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:14 am 
Offline
Top Dog and Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Madison, WI
Xenu wrote:
The MCA issue is slightly louder. When normalized, of course, they cancel out completely. :roll:


Also, to be fair, after adjusting by 0.6 dB and performing the null, there is some signal at -90.3 dB, a mix of noise (mostly) and (very faintly) the actual audio. Presumably due to quantization errors. So they don't null out *completely*...but pretty damn close.

_________________
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:48 am
Posts: 4384
Location: The Reality-Based Community
"drowning in artificial bass"

_________________
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:05 pm 
Offline
Top Dog and Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Madison, WI
Rspaight wrote:
"drowning in artificial bass"


The MCA Who's Next and Quad comments are great too, although at the moment I don't have the stomach to bother searching for them.

And yet he has never acknowledged that there are actually 2 different Polydor masterings of Tommy.

_________________
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:03 am 
Offline
Top Dog and Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Madison, WI
I thought Xenu would be jumping on this...

_________________
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:39 pm 
Offline
Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:15 pm
Posts: 2209
I don't jump. I just traipse.

_________________
-------------
"Fuckin' Koreans" - Reno 911


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:28 am 
Offline
Top Dog and Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Madison, WI
Coming back to this...

Andreas wrote:
Dudelsack's numbers are almost exactly my numbers multiplied by 1.0718 (which equals 100/93.3), i.e. the volume increase that is needed to make the CD peak at 100%


I had previously assumed the MCA was simply shifted up by 0.6dB to hit 0dB peak. However, I just noticed two things:

1) The art for the original MCA indicates a 1985 date. The art for the Polydor (my copy, anyway) indicates 1987. *If* in fact the Polydor was not released until then, the "copied and increased by 0.6dB" story seems less likely, and it seems more likely the Polydor was in fact lowered by 0.6dB.

2) The title track continues slightly longer on the Polydor, but just with silence. On the other hand, there's a bit over a hundred milliseconds of additional non-silence at the end of the MCA. That seems to suggest the MCA is (*slightly*) more complete, but it's hard to say if that's the case or if it is a small bit of extra digital noise of some sort. That said, I'm not sure any sort of dithering would have been in use at that point (1985) to create such noise.

In theory there could have been an early digital transfer that was first copied by MCA and boosted slightly, and then later used "straight" by Polydor, but that seems like a bit of a stretch. Thoughts?

Two questions:

1) Does anybody have a Polydor CD with a date earlier than 1987?

2) Does anybody have a Polydor CD that has a matrix that ends in something other than 03?

_________________
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:00 am 
Offline
Top Dog and Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Madison, WI
One additional thing I just noticed - the peak for the disc appears to be at 3:09 in 905. On the MCA, the peak is 0 dB and there are a handful of clipped samples. On the Polydor, the peak is -0.6 dB, and while it isn't clipped (obviously, since it isn't at 0 dB), the waveform matches the MCA and is also flatlined for a handful of samples. That is to say, it certainly *appears* that the clipping happened on the original transfer, which was used by MCA, and that Polydor simply bumped the level down by 0.6 dB, perhaps *because* of the clipping.

Thoughts?

_________________
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group