Anyone have the Beach Boys "Wild Honey" Pastmaster

[dudelsack]

(Side note: I'm not saying *you're* saying this (general rant alert), but it really makes me laugh when people decry the horror of lossy data compression in one breath, and talk about how much they love CDs that max out at 60% the next. And then later talk about how they love the "extra resolution" on 24-bit DVD-As.)

Ryan

Mmm, never occurred to me, but I'm no great friend of DVD-A and/or SACD these days anyway, for similar reasons: bad mastering sounds bad no matter the how much you jack up the resolution of the medium.

[lukpac]

I call it laziness and incompetence not to care about digital clipping. And we are talking about dozens of samples per song.

Well...so? Can you *hear* dozens of clipped samples per song? Or even hundreds?

[Andreas]

Sure, if you don't mind only getting 13 or 14 bits of resolution instead of the full 16.

I am afraid to tell you that your math is inorrect here. If 50 % were the maximum volume, you lose exactly one bit of resolution. I prefer this over digital distortion at every volume peak.

[Andreas]

[
Well...so? Can you *hear* dozens of clipped samples per song? Or even hundreds?

I am not sure. Can you hear that one bit less is used for resolution?

[lukpac]

I am not sure. Can you hear that one bit less is used for resolution?

No, but it's somewhat annoying to pop in a disc and have it be that low in level. Not the end of the world (as some elsewhere might think), but annoying nonetheless.

If you can hear problems with clipping, well, fine, but I haven't, and you haven't indicated that you can either.

[Rspaight]

I am afraid to tell you that your math is inorrect here. If 50 % were the maximum volume, you lose exactly one bit of resolution. I prefer this over digital distortion at every volume peak.

I've got discs that literally peak at 35%. I'd rather have a handful of clipped samples than that.

Ryan

[Xenu]

Which ones, Ryan? I don't think I have any that're quite that bad. Some of the RCA Bowies are pretty quiet.

[Dob]

The biggest plus is, of course, the volume. Every track on the Linett Friends remaster shows countless examples of digital clipping (peak level 99.8 %).

As it happens, I was just looking at the waveforms of some Beach Boys Linett tracks (not Friends)...there are a lot of clipped waveforms, but I've seen much worse. IMO, this amount of clipping isn't nearly as much of a factor as bad EQ, which some of the Linett tracks do have.

I haven't looked at too many Pastmasters waveforms, but I think that 60% is an anomaly...I'd guess that most tracks I've seen peak out in the 80% range.

All Summer Long pastmasters has some fake stereo tracks, though.

That's definitely not one of the better Pastmasters. I did a comparison with the Linnett and the DCC comps, and I liked the Pastmasters best for only three tracks.

While perusing the DCC Endless Summer, I was surprised to see Mark Linett's name in the credits (for "music restoration"). Never noticed that before...judging by the way Linett dissed the SH Pet Sounds, I would've thought that he and SH don't get along at all.

[Xenu]

"Music Restoration"="Tape research," maybe?

[Andreas]

No, but it's somewhat annoying to pop in a disc and have it be that low in level. Not the end of the world (as some elsewhere might think), but annoying nonetheless.

I guess you are primarliy listening on a PC, without amplifier? Because, otherwise I really can't imagine why this would be annoying.

If you can hear problems with clipping, well, fine, but I haven't, and you haven't indicated that you can either.

I am not sure what you are saying here...all the CDs with almost constant clipping do sound harsh and unpleasant to me. I can't say for sure if this is because of the clipping or because of other mastering mistakes. But if I can decide, I would always choose the CD with unclipped waveforms.

Would you intentionally choose the louder CD?

[Andreas]

I've got discs that literally peak at 35%. I'd rather have a handful of clipped samples than that.
Ryan

As I said, we are talking about dozens, or in some other examples (Linett Today) of hundreds of samples. Is that a handful?

[Rspaight]

Considering each sample = 1/44,100th of a second, I could live with a few hundred clipped ones across a 40-minute album (which would contain, according to my Windows calculator, 105,840,000 samples -- 500 clipped samples would be about .0005% of the album). Exceedingly low levels, however, would affect every single one of those 105 million samples.

Ryan

[lukpac]

I guess you are primarliy listening on a PC, without amplifier? Because, otherwise I really can't imagine why this would be annoying.

My main computer is hooked up through my stereo, so no. It has to do more with switching discs and having one be really low in level in comparison to the others.

Keep in mind I'm not simply saying "louder is better". I don't want things super compressed. But there's no reason to not use all the available range on a CD.

I am not sure what you are saying here...all the CDs with almost constant clipping do sound harsh and unpleasant to me. I can't say for sure if this is because of the clipping or because of other mastering mistakes. But if I can decide, I would always choose the CD with unclipped waveforms.

That really sounds like more of an issue with EQ to me (some of those Linett CDs are a bit on the bright side). Clipping of "dozens of samples" would show up as individual transients, not an overall harsh sound.

Would you intentionally choose the louder CD?

All else being equal? Probably. Unless I could hear a specific problem with the clipping, which I really doubt.

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

nt

[Andreas]

Here's a question: What came first? Did you listen to the disc, think it sounded like there was serious clipping, and then check the waveforms? Or did you check the waveforms first, notice the clipping, and then listen for it on the disc?

In 2001, I found all Linett/Gastwirt remasters great in terms of clarity and detail, compared to the 1990s twofers and the box set. Then I found out this was because the earlier masters were noise-reduced. After aquiring the DCCs, I noticed that they were better than the Linett ones. Warmer, fuller, more musical, but without losing the details. I don't have scientific words for what I was hearing, so it sounds cliched. But I knew something was wrong with the Linett/Gastwirt remasters. Enhanced top end usually does not bother me, since I am a big fan of Bill Inglot's work. That's why I compared waveforms and found that almost all tracks showed countless examples of clipped waveforms.

If the choice is between 60% maximum or 110% maximum (with top 10% clipped), then I prefer 60%. I am not saying that either is ideal.

Bootom line, the Pastmasters Friends does sound better than any other CD version. This is completely subjective and can not be proven objectively. The facts about the volume and clippings are completely objective. The correlation between those two aspects is just an educated guess on my side.