Mr. Soul/Bluebird/Merry Go Round/Uno Mundo Mixes

Just what the name says.
User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4585
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Postby lukpac » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:50 pm

I just meant the long one. That came out on the 1973 2 LP set.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

Ess Ay Cee Dee
Posts: 1458
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:35 pm
Contact:

Postby Ess Ay Cee Dee » Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:21 pm

nt
Last edited by Ess Ay Cee Dee on Sun May 01, 2005 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4585
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Postby lukpac » Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:37 pm

I've got two pressings of the 1973 set, one coming from Mr. Hunte. The one that seems to be more original (it has the textured cover) sounds like crap. The reissue (smooth cover) sounds great.

Of course, that's just for side 2. At least some of the other sides are identical. The only thing it's good for anyway is that long Bluebird.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

Chris M
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:17 pm
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

Postby Chris M » Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:07 am

While we are at it what's the deal with the other(s) long version of Bluebird. I heard one on a collection of BS outtakes and while it was clearly different the sound quality was so bad I couldn't make myself listen to it.
"I've had 40 years experience with hearing tape and vinyl. I was recording tapes before you were born" - Grant

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4585
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Postby lukpac » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:44 am

Chris M wrote:While we are at it what's the deal with the other(s) long version of Bluebird. I heard one on a collection of BS outtakes and while it was clearly different the sound quality was so bad I couldn't make myself listen to it.


I haven't heard it myself, but from what I can gather, the first part of the song is unique (rather than having the common version spliced on), while the extended portion is the same as the 9 minute version, but with more/different overdubs. I seem to recall hearing something about an "answering" guitar line to some of Steve's shouts.

But like I said, I haven't heard it, so I could be off the mark.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4585
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Mr. Soul/Bluebird/Merry Go Round/Uno Mundo Mixes

Postby lukpac » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:59 pm



So I got a newer *Atlantic* Oldies Series copy of this. Mr. Soul just seems to be the LP version in mono, which made me think perhaps the other one *is* an alternate/mistake of some sort. However, flipping over to Bluebird reveals the LP version once again (with the electric guitar solo at the end) with a fade to match the other single version. So my guess is that this one simply has mono fold downs of the LP versions, and the MP3 above *is* the original single version. At least that's my story until I hear an original single.

Also got Merry Go Round/Un Mundo (sic) today:

Merry Go Round (45 RPM mix)
Uno Mundo (45 RPM mix)

Both do have some interesting changes compared to the LP versions. Both are CSG, so the phase/balance is a bit off. That 45 distortion drives me crazy - maybe I need Ryan to see if the V15xMR would help at all.

Odd that Merry Go Round/Uno Mundo came out prior to On The Way Home/Four Days Gone, yet the former is in stereo and the latter is in mono (seems like a fold down).
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

Ess Ay Cee Dee
Posts: 1458
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Mr. Soul/Bluebird/Merry Go Round/Uno Mundo Mixes

Postby Ess Ay Cee Dee » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:23 pm

nt
Last edited by Ess Ay Cee Dee on Sun May 01, 2005 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4585
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Mr. Soul/Bluebird/Merry Go Round/Uno Mundo Mixes

Postby lukpac » Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:13 pm

Ess Ay Cee Dee wrote:I say this as a former 45 collector who grew up in a house with a jukebox and a music-obsessed Boomer father.


Having grown up with cassettes and LPs, singles just seem really quaint to me. The small size, high speed, and dubious fidelity...

Listening to Merry-Go-Round (I suppose I should properly spell that out) some more, it's really interesting how the same elements can sound so different depending on the mix. The calliope is there in the intro on both mixes, but it's really far down on the LP mix. Some notes which stick out on the single are totally buried under everything else on the LP. The harpsichord is mixed out on the LP during the "what in the world..." sections, but it's loud and clear on the single.

The box set claims that Steve, Richie and Neil all play guitar on the track, but unless I'm going crazy, I only hear one (left on the single, right on the LP). It also claims Jeremy Stuart plays both calliope and bells, which seems unlikely, since both seem to be recorded on the same track (center on the 45, right on the LP), and thus had to have been recorded at the same time.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

Ess Ay Cee Dee
Posts: 1458
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Mr. Soul/Bluebird/Merry Go Round/Uno Mundo Mixes

Postby Ess Ay Cee Dee » Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:29 pm

nt
Last edited by Ess Ay Cee Dee on Sun May 01, 2005 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4585
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Mr. Soul/Bluebird/Merry Go Round/Uno Mundo Mixes

Postby lukpac » Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:36 pm

Ess Ay Cee Dee wrote:I'm just old enough to have grown up with 45's. (Lucky me.) Unless you have a jukebox, they really are a pain in the ass. As far as the fidelity goes, it's all over the map. I've heard singles that sound unbelievably good (much better than any LP or CD version of the same track), but I've heard many more that really are horrendous. Styrene 45's are typically the worst (lots of distortion).


I only have a handful, but of those, while the surface is usually fairly quiet (both in terms of background noise and ticks/pops), there's a lot of distortion (as witnessed by Uno Mundo, Mr. Soul, etc). I do have one or two where the background noise is pretty loud too, but...

Time to play dumb...how do you know if a single is styrene or vinyl?
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

Ess Ay Cee Dee
Posts: 1458
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Mr. Soul/Bluebird/Merry Go Round/Uno Mundo Mixes

Postby Ess Ay Cee Dee » Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:53 pm

nt
Last edited by Ess Ay Cee Dee on Sun May 01, 2005 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
CitizenDan
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:26 am
Location: Capitol City, Minn.

Postby CitizenDan » Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:44 pm

Styrene 45s also usually have a paper label pasted on. The labels on vinyl 45s are more integrated into the vinyl.

And as Ess Ay said, you can bend a vinyl 45 quite a bit without breaking it; try that with a styrene 45 and you'll end up with a handful of 45lets.

One other thing, the edge of a styrene 45 is squared off, while the edge of of a vinyl 45 comes to an actual edge, if that makes sense.

Styrene pressings are not only more subject to distortion, they're even noisier in the dead wax. The record the kid puts on at the beginning of Cheech and Chong's "Earache My Eye"? Styrene. How sad that I can tell.
We were right about Vietnam. We were right about Nixon. We were right about Reaganomics. Trust us -- we're right about Bush, too.

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4585
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Postby lukpac » Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:08 pm

CitizenDan wrote:One other thing, the edge of a styrene 45 is squared off, while the edge of of a vinyl 45 comes to an actual edge, if that makes sense.


Hmm...I'll have to check again, but it seems like most/all of my singles have the "square" edges, vs a ridge. As the dead wax seems fairly quiet on some of these, I'm not sure those are styrene...
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

User avatar
lukpac
Top Dog and Sellout
Posts: 4585
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re:

Postby lukpac » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:00 pm

lukpac wrote:
CitizenDan wrote:One other thing, the edge of a styrene 45 is squared off, while the edge of of a vinyl 45 comes to an actual edge, if that makes sense.


Hmm...I'll have to check again, but it seems like most/all of my singles have the "square" edges, vs a ridge. As the dead wax seems fairly quiet on some of these, I'm not sure those are styrene...


Revisiting this several years later...a few months after I posted this I got an AT440MLa and tried transferring Merry-Go-Round/Uno Mundo. It got shredded. Turns out it was in fact styrene. Over the years I got more copies, but always avoided playing them with the 440 out of fear of damaging them. I just came across this:

http://ryansvinylemporium.blogspot.com/ ... ecord.html

Check out the photo of the reflected light. I took a look at my 45s, and it turned out to be *very* easy to tell what was vinyl and what was styrene that way. All but 2 copies of MGR/UM are on vinyl, and it turns out those all play fine with the 440 after all.

Also, I've found that some of my styrene singles are in fact very quiet (surface noise wise), but often also quite distorted from previous plays.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

User avatar
Jeff T.
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:28 am
Location: Blueberry Hill

Re: Mr. Soul/Bluebird/Merry Go Round/Uno Mundo Mixes

Postby Jeff T. » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:05 pm

It was not previously obvious to you which 45s are styrene I take it. Seems to be a US invention for record pressing material.

I have had some of them that play just fine with a 440ML, and others that get shredded to bits after one pass. So there is that risk (with micro-line tips) I had not known about until the last couple of years.

When I am out around LA and find a stash of promo 45s, or any stack of minty 45s worth considering (this happens more in LA than most cities), I consider buying based on styrene or not. If styrene, then condition must appear Mint / unplayed.

I've snapped up Tommy James and the Shondells 45s in Mint condition for pennies on the dollar. Crystal Blue Persuasion, Sweet Cherry Wine, Crimson, etc. were found not too long ago with perfectly crisp company sleeves. These 45s (I think) feature unique mixes.

For Atco/Atlantic singles I try and get promo copies which are always vinyl. They have the glossy labels, and look to be RCA style pressings. Springfield on promo 45 might be tougher to find.

I mainly pick up minty copies of 45s which I had when I was 9 to 13 years old. You know buying back my childhood, as if I was robbed of it at some point. I had about 100 singles of importance by the time I was 13. Many of them I have in mint condition now. The Box Tops - "Soul Deep" - The Rascals - "People Got to be Free" - Cowsils - "Indian Lake" things like that shaped my musical tastes staring at age 8.