Forums dot lukpac.org

A place to discuss music and Mallard Fillmore
It is currently Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:11 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:28 am
Posts: 421
Location: Blueberry Hill
PS this description of styrene vs. vinyl is very poor:

See the differences in the picture? They're pretty obvious alright. The vinyl 45 has a shinier surface, and the label is pressed on together with the vinyl mold by the pressing plant. The styrene 45's surface looks more "dull" compared to the vinyl 45 and also has a rough-edged rim around the label

The pictures also did not show enough detail for most to be able to discern much difference between the two materials.

The edges of a styrene 45 are flat edged and square. The vinyl single will come to a thin edge. Columbia/Epic did some amazing sounding vinyl 45s in the late 60s. Blood Sweat and Tears - "Spinning Wheel" and things from that era. Columbia/Epic also issued styrene which sounded awful after two plays. It all depended on which copy you happened to come across.

I can't imagine "Hey Jude" ever being on styrene, what with the long running time it would have been toast within one pass on my GE battery powered plastic phono.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:27 pm 
Offline
Top Dog and Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Madison, WI
Jeff T. wrote:
PS this description of styrene vs. vinyl is very poor:

See the differences in the picture? They're pretty obvious alright. The vinyl 45 has a shinier surface, and the label is pressed on together with the vinyl mold by the pressing plant. The styrene 45's surface looks more "dull" compared to the vinyl 45 and also has a rough-edged rim around the label

The pictures also did not show enough detail for most to be able to discern much difference between the two materials.


Actually, that photo helped me immensely, although the description could have been better. Most of the previous stuff I had seen talked about the labels and the sound they make when tapping them. I think the reflection method is definitely the easiest. While the photo could have been a bit better, the idea is correct: vinyl will be relatively reflective in the groove area, while styrene will scatter the light. You'll see light bouncing back, but you won't see a mirror image like with vinyl.

As for the Springfield, I just went through all of my copies. 3 styrene copies from Monarch, 3 vinyl copies from Plastic Products (Memphis), and 4 vinyl copies from Specialty. Of those, 2 of the Plastic Products copies are promos, and have relatively matte labels, while 1 of the Specialty copies is a promo, with a glossy label.

_________________
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:55 pm 
Offline
Top Dog and Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Madison, WI
One interesting observation - I just pulled out a Columbia 45 which I assume is styrene, but the groove area is far more mirror-like than any of my Monarch styrene pressings, and the 440 doesn't seem to hurt it.

_________________
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:28 am
Posts: 421
Location: Blueberry Hill
I have also seen some styrene 45s that have mirror like surface as well as rough textured playing area. That was my problem with the description in link.

I go by that ringing sound when tapping on edge, or of course low-gloss paper label glued on record for detection of the dreaded styrene.

I have a (styrene) 45 of Bob Dylan's "Heart of Mind" which is an amazing sounding 45. It just never picked up the wear usual patterns of the material. I have played it with the AT 440, and not seen any of that awful reaming of the grooves one can get with that cart/material combo.

This single was bought around 1981 due to featuring a non-LP track on the b-side.

I think a non-worn 45, one that perhaps has never been played on/with another stylus, perfect newish condition stylus with preper weight/setup, these condition can get a styrene 45 to play without often/usual problems of the micro-line with styrene combination.

I'm into needle drops as much or more than I even listen to music these days. I'm also into new stylus' like one changes their underwear. So this I attribute to why I have better luck with tracking a styrene 45 than many. But I did last summer needle drop a friends 45 collection, and saw some styrene go nuts on my rig. I first did a deep soap/water cleaning, and then dropped it to digital, and never looked back. I saw the wear coming fast, but the drop itself sounded fine enough for a record not in NM condition anyway. In other words, I did one pass, wore out the record in the process, and then went to next one w/o any real concern. My friend was euphoric at the sound of all tracks in the end and gave me $100.

Of course for rare Springfield mixes, I would take out my Stanton old L720 cart (I think that is the model), and try that first. Get a good capture, and then maybe try the 440 next after I'm sure I have already gotten one good pass to digital.

But main thing is to really clean the styrene 45 good under water to get all bits of broken material out of the grooves before capture. Then at least that is not in the way of contact, and whatever gets shaved off from there is just gone with the wind.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:53 pm 
Offline
Top Dog and Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Madison, WI
Jeff T. wrote:
I think a non-worn 45, one that perhaps has never been played on/with another stylus, perfect newish condition stylus with preper weight/setup, these condition can get a styrene 45 to play without often/usual problems of the micro-line with styrene combination.


I don't think so. It seems to be based on the material. My best guess at this point is that all styrene wasn't made equal, and that some was a bit more resilient.

Jeff T. wrote:
Of course for rare Springfield mixes, I would take out my Stanton old L720 cart (I think that is the model), and try that first. Get a good capture, and then maybe try the 440 next after I'm sure I have already gotten one good pass to digital.


The vinyl copies hold up fine with the 440, and seem to be the least distorted anyway.

Jeff T. wrote:
But main thing is to really clean the styrene 45 good under water to get all bits of broken material out of the grooves before capture. Then at least that is not in the way of contact, and whatever gets shaved off from there is just gone with the wind.


Image

_________________
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:28 am
Posts: 421
Location: Blueberry Hill
Honestly, I do not think any record cleaning machine can do a better job than I can with my hands. With my bare hands I can feel bits of dirt a brush cannot feel. And those brushes keep scrubbing when scrubbing is not needed. Each record is a case by case example of what kind of a cleaning it needs.

But, cleaning machines are just wonderful for those that can't handle manual cleaning by hand. I've been doing it for 30 years and have perfected the hand method.

lukpac wrote:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:05 am 
Offline
Top Dog and Sellout
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:51 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Madison, WI
The biggest thing with the machine is it sucks everything off so it doesn't dry back on the record. Even if all of the "dirt" is washed away, having tap water dry back on the record is bad.

_________________
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:28 am
Posts: 421
Location: Blueberry Hill
lukpac wrote:
The biggest thing with the machine is it sucks everything off so it doesn't dry back on the record. Even if all of the "dirt" is washed away, having tap water dry back on the record is bad.


A soft terry cloth towel is used to dry record by hand. Gentle motion in direction of grooves. Then after several records, or when cloth is getting damp, a fresh clean cloth is used. No tap H20 is ever let dry on a record.

I use a towel that is lint free and absorbs quickly. At end the record shows no signs of being cleaned other than being clean. Those machines can leave dead was area showing faint brush marks, little micro marks.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group