Toshiba Abbey Road, is it really that good?

Beatlesfan03 · Postby **Beatlesfan03** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:30 pm

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showt ... ge=1&pp=20

Saw the above discussion and thought I'd see if anyone over here has heard the disc and can confirm that it is worth the raves that it gets over there.

I'd like to snag one but the only reason I am skeptical is because everyone raved about that German MMT and when I got it, I was rather disappointed with the sound (could be a bum pressing. I obviously need to take Matrix Numbers 101) although to its credit, the 2nd side sounded better and the first and plus you get all the tracks in true stereo. But I guess that's for another thread.

Postby **lukpac** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:31 pm

I think it's good - maybe a hair better than the stock CD - but I don't think it's miles better or anything.

Gardo wrote:The official EMI release in 1987 suffers from noise reduction, at least, and though it was supposedly made from the original master it is not nearly as good as the Toshiba/EMI Japanese release.

sydbarrett wrote:The EMI is from the master but has no-noise applied to several tracks.

If you search the archives, I think I debunked this one 2 years ago - hiss levels are virtually the same on the two discs. In fact, there's actually a tad *more* hiss on the stock CD in places, probably due to slightly different EQ.

The fun starts here:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showt ... light=hiss

Note that Gardo can't seem to shake the idea that there isn't NR on the stock copy:

Gardo wrote:I still believe that the stock copy is more compressed than the Japanese copy. Just listen to "Maxwell's Silver Hammer," where the stock copy has clear drops (or "ducks") of the instrumental backing when McCartney sings. The Japanese AR, by contrast, has a more even, consistent-sounding mix between vocal and instruments. The extra compression on the stock copy also has the effect of boosting the apparent level of hiss, which may be why you hear more hiss on your stock copy, Luke. I'd be willing to bet that the extra compression on the stock copy drove some of the NR that I still believe EMI did for the official release of AR. At any rate, the extra hiss seems to be an artifact of the compression, to my ears, and not evidence of an NR-free recording.

So somehow more compression (and there really isn't much) increases hiss levels.

And it's sad/amusing that nobody seems to understand pre-emphasis.

I've got the German MMT. I think it's good, although again, I'm not sure it's tons better than the stock CD.

Ess Ay Cee Dee · Postby **Ess Ay Cee Dee** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:56 pm

Postby **lukpac** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:37 pm

I'm comparing Something at the moment, and man, they are damn close. Same with Here Comes the Sun. No hint of NR anywhere - no artifacts of any sort, and the hiss level is the same. You Never Give Me Your Money sounds like the EQ might be tipped *up* ever so slightly on the stock copy, but even then it's close.

I could post a few MP3s, but you'd have to burn them to CD with the PE bit set.

Dob · Postby **Dob** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:43 pm

My 2 cents -- I much prefer the MFSL needle drop to the Toshiba.

The MFSL has a nice bass boost that really complements the sound, IMO. "Come Together" on the MFSL has real rock'n'roll power compared to the Toshiba, which sounds thin to me.

Ess Ay Cee Dee · Postby **Ess Ay Cee Dee** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:48 pm

Ess Ay Cee Dee · Postby **Ess Ay Cee Dee** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:56 pm

Postby **lukpac** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:03 pm

Perhaps you misunderstood me. The Toshiba disc *doesn't* have more hiss. If anything it has a *hair* less in places, probably due to different EQ. A good tape copy (especially at 30 IPS) won't impart much hiss at all.

Yeah, so many people on the 'net can't seem to grasp hiss. The old BSN mantra was always "less is better", to the point where (excuse the expression) no-noised to death CDs were much better than other CDs because they had less hiss. Everything always revolved around being "clean" or "hissy".

On the other hand, you've got a whole bunch of people at sh.tv that figure if a CD has less hiss, it MUST have NR, and as such, is bad. I seem to recall a discussion on the first Buffalo Springfield album where this was brought up. It's rare that a remastered CD is a clear-cut improvement over an older one, but that would be one time where it holds true. Yet that old CD had more hiss, and was thus better!

Ess Ay Cee Dee · Postby **Ess Ay Cee Dee** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:16 pm

Postby **lukpac** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:35 pm

Ess Ay Cee Dee wrote:I simply refuse to believe that a hissy 80's disc mastered from sub-optimal tapes is better than a carefully-mastered version produced from first-gen tapes. Good examples are Bowie (RCA vs Ryko vs Virgin) and Led Zeppelin (80's vs 90's). (I'm sure the Buffalo Springfield example is valid, too, though I've never heard anything but the HDCD version, which is quite good.)

The only one of those I've heard is the Springfield title, so I can't comment on the other two. And I guess I don't have much stuff from "inferior" sources. A *possible* exception might be the Byrds' My Back Pages. The last time I compared them, I thought the Hoffman mastering on Rock Of The 70s was nicer than the YTY remix. The ROT70s version came from a tape at least a generation down, if not more, while the remix was, well, a remix.

I can think of plenty of examples where I like earlier CDs better, but in most cases the source is (seemingly) the same.

Andreas · Postby **Andreas** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:45 am

Steve Hoffman himself said that the standard Abbey Road CD has noise reduction in this thread:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showt ... ge=1&pp=20

I personally like the standard Abbey Road CD. It is funny how much better it sounds than the same songs on the blue album double CD.

Postby **lukpac** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:50 am

Andreas wrote:Steve Hoffman himself said that the standard Abbey Road CD has noise reduction in this thread:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showt ... ge=1&pp=20

Well, ask him to explain why the hiss levels are the same on the two CDs.

I can say something till I'm blue in the face, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Somehow people got it in their heads that AR has NR, so now of course it must be true. I don't think a single one of them has put the two discs side by side to compare hiss.

dudelsack · Postby **dudelsack** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:57 pm

For the prices that this CD goes for, you could buy about five nice vinyl -2/-1 apple-label UK pressings...them's NICE, let me tell you.

Rspaight · Postby **Rspaight** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:04 pm

The MFSL has a nice bass boost that really complements the sound, IMO. "Come Together" on the MFSL has real rock'n'roll power compared to the Toshiba, which sounds thin to me.

I've never heard the Toshiba, but my EAS-series Japan LP kicks the stock CD's butt for precisely that reason.

Ryan

Beatlesfan03 · Postby **Beatlesfan03** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:53 pm

dudelsack wrote:For the prices that this CD goes for, you could buy about five nice vinyl -2/-1 apple-label UK pressings...them's NICE, let me tell you.

Yep. I've already got one of those although it's certainly seen better days. I had a -5/-4 from a UK BC13 that was downright horrible. My Dutch BC13 AR has funky markings but I don't think its a -2/-1, it certainly did blow away the UK BC13 version though.

I find it strange that the whole NR discussion on the current stock disc. I don't have it anymore, but I remember the stock CD being rather hissy. Also, if I'm not mistaken, didn't Steve say that Abbey Road was one of the better Beatles CDs out there?

When I get some time, I'll have to delve through the archives, sure there is some amusing comments in there.

If you want to post an MP3 Luke that's cool, I don't want you to go out of your way though.