Sterling Sound remastering US Beatles albums

Just what the name says.
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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:27 pm

Dob wrote:Apparently some folks vehemently disagree.


Well that sucks.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Rspaight » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:39 pm

I'm concerned about this oral fixation you seem to be developing here lately, Luke. Are you trying to kick smoking or something?

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Postby lukpac » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:50 pm

Not that I'm aware of, no.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Dob » Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:46 pm

lukpac wrote:Well that sucks.

I wasn't trying to be confrontational...I don't know about Perkom, but Larry strikes me as one of the more knowledgeable posters on SHtv and he seems quite sure about this.

Someone is clearly very mistaken here. I take it that you are siding with Mr. Spizer? I've never compared the UK/US stereo mixes myself, but I'm thinking the differences--if any-- must a lot more audible than the differences between UD1s/UD2s (in other words, very obvious and not subject to "interpretation").
Dob
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Postby lukpac » Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:02 pm

I'm saying it sucks if what Larry is saying is true. I'm inclined to believe him, although you never know.

As far as UD/UDII goes, keep in mind some of those same people can't hear gross differences in EQ or mix. I generally take their opinions with a grain of salt.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby lukpac » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:42 am

Dob wrote:Apparently some folks vehemently disagree.


Perkom wrote:I say it again - EVERY ONE OF THE 1964 CAPITOL SONGS HAD EXTRA ECHO AND REVERB ADDED.


Well that's just bull - Something New doesn't. Can't say I know for sure about the rest, but...

And there's another thread on this:

Ed Bishop wrote:Well, except for stupidly referring to those mixes as 'George Martin' mixes. In fact, the first two UK albums' stereo mixes, IIRC, were done behind his back...or, at the least, he wasn't happy about having to do them.


Umm, Ed, sorry, but you're wrong. He's said he didn't do them - several years after the fact. But the session notes don't back that up. In fact, the mono and stereo "mixes" (it's a loose term) of PPM were done AT THE SAME SESSION. Not just the same day, same session.

And then we have Martin Lewis:

Martin Lewis wrote:In 1964, George Martin had been rightly horrified by the temerity of Capitol changing the sound of early Beatles recordings without even the courtesy of seeking the Beatles' permission - and doing it so BADLY.  Rather than allow Capitol to again molest the Beatles’ newest recordings with their tawdry cheap effects - he succumbed to pressure from Capitol in 1964-5 for "stereo mixes" and hastily dashed off a few crude stereo mixes to appease the hungry machine.  Mark Lewisohn’s “Sessions” records how little time and thought was put into those stereo mixes for Capitol.

But when given unlimited time and resources to present the Beatles catalogue for posterity on CD in 1986-7 - he consulted with the three surviving Beatles and they all agreed that the only TRUE representation of what they had created deep in the heart of England in those magical early years were the mono masters.  Hence the wise decision to issue those first four real albums in mono.


Ok, who ever got it in their head that the stereo mixes were somehow "for Capitol"?* If Capitol wanted those stereo mixes so badly, don't you think they would have actually requested the stereo mixes of IWTHYH, I Feel Fine, etc? And why would EMI even bother making those mixes if they weren't going to be sent to Capitol?

And as far as the CDs go, I think that the "Martin wanted those albums out in mono" story has pretty much been debunked, at least for AHDN and BFS. He didn't seem to have a problem putting out the 1964 tracks in stereo on Past Masters...

* I will say I remember reading a quote from (I think) Norman Smith on the mixing of PPM. Something about making a stereo mix "for the US". Of course PPM came out in stereo in the UK several months before Introducing the Beatles did...
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Dob » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:47 pm

Martin Lewis wrote:covered in slut makeup...tarted-up versions...fling with the garishly-made-up teenybopper ...“fumble and grope”...You ought to be able to tell the difference between lust and love, between easy and special, between cheap and classy, between...

Enough already. We get the point.
Dob

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Postby czeskleba » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:30 pm

lukpac wrote:Ok, who ever got it in their head that the stereo mixes were somehow "for Capitol"?*


I think George Martin has spread that story himself sometimes, hasn't he? I seem to recall interviews where he claimed that the first two albums were not even released in stereo in Britain in the 60s.

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Postby lukpac » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:18 am

This was pointed out to me:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showt ... 698&page=1

Either that's some crazy pressing of Something New, or the Deluxe Something New boot we like so much isn't actually sourced from that album.

Capitol has a few clips up but they are in mono (even though at least If I Fell is the stereo mix).
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby lukpac » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:23 am

czeskleba wrote:I think George Martin has spread that story himself sometimes, hasn't he? I seem to recall interviews where he claimed that the first two albums were not even released in stereo in Britain in the 60s.


This is the main interview in question:

ALLAN KOZINN: Brian Southall told me the other day that the very first two albums were not released in stereo until much later.

GEORGE MARTIN: That's right.

ALLAN KOZINN: However, I've found some early Parlophone advertisements -- including one in a 1963 tour program -- that not only gives the mono and stereo catalogue numbers, but shows photos of the stereo album covers. They do seem to have been released simultaneously. (Note: To see the ads Allan is referring to, click here and also click right here.)

GEORGE MARTIN: [silence] I can't believe that. We issued "Please Please Me" in February 1963, and certainly no stereo mixes were made. Not by me. Not by anybody I know.

[Editor's note: "Please Please Me" was released in March 1963 in mono and April 1963 in stereo; the studio paperwork lists Martin as the producer on the day when both mixes were made.]

ALLAN KOZINN: Well, I have another advertisement that shows "Please Please Me," the "Twist and Shout" EP and the "She Loves You" single -- which, taken together, would place that ad in about August 1963 -- and again, it gives the stereo catalogue number for the album.

GEORGE MARTIN: You have the advantage of me. I was not aware of a stereo album being produced. I thought it had been done after I left in 1965. Certainly I wasn't aware of it at the time. Now, that may seem extraordinary to you, but in 1963 I don't even think I had time to have breakfast. Certainly I didn't do the stereo mixes, and neither did the Beatles. Some geezer at EMI probably looked at this and said, for the minority of stereo people around, we'd better put out a stereo record.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby Xenu » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:55 am

lukpac wrote:This was pointed out to me:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showt ... 698&page=1

Either that's some crazy pressing of Something New, or the Deluxe Something New boot we like so much isn't actually sourced from that album.

Capitol has a few clips up but they are in mono (even though at least If I Fell is the stereo mix).


Deluxe Something New is from a Japanese source, which leads me to believe that it might've been...I dunno. Less processed? The versions seem to match up otherwise (i.e. the correct stereo Komm, the correct mono AILH...)
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Postby lukpac » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:25 am

Perhaps the mono is from a Capitol source but the stereo isn't?

I suppose we'll find out in a week.
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Postby lukpac » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:03 pm

I don't know what to think anymore. Spizer responded to some comments of mine:
Bruce Spizer wrote:You imply that albums other than The Beatles' Second Album have added echo. I personally examined each of the Capitol master tape boxes and only the stereo box for The Beatles' Second Album has a reference to being dubbed with echo. Some of the songs were E/Qed differently at the mastering stage, but they were not taken from the British master tapes with added echo dubbed on. The stereo version of The Beatles' Second Album is the only LP given such treatment. The mono version of The Beatles' Second Album is very dry compared to the stereo version. The only other tracks showing significant added echo are I Feel Fine and She's A Woman, which were released on a Capitol single a few weeks ahead of the album Beatles '65. Capitol added echo to these songs perhaps not realizing that George Martin had already made Capitol special mixes with added echo. So these two songs really have extra echo. And, of course, the duophonic mixes of these songs that appear on the Beatles '65 album were mixed from the echo-on-echo mono tapes, so they are truly a sonic disaster.


So what the hell? Anyone here have the US versions handy? I don't.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD

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Postby dudelsack » Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:37 pm

lukpac wrote:I don't know what to think anymore. Spizer responded to some comments of mine:
Bruce Spizer wrote:You imply that albums other than The Beatles' Second Album have added echo. I personally examined each of the Capitol master tape boxes and only the stereo box for The Beatles' Second Album has a reference to being dubbed with echo. Some of the songs were E/Qed differently at the mastering stage, but they were not taken from the British master tapes with added echo dubbed on. The stereo version of The Beatles' Second Album is the only LP given such treatment. The mono version of The Beatles' Second Album is very dry compared to the stereo version. The only other tracks showing significant added echo are I Feel Fine and She's A Woman, which were released on a Capitol single a few weeks ahead of the album Beatles '65. Capitol added echo to these songs perhaps not realizing that George Martin had already made Capitol special mixes with added echo. So these two songs really have extra echo. And, of course, the duophonic mixes of these songs that appear on the Beatles '65 album were mixed from the echo-on-echo mono tapes, so they are truly a sonic disaster.


So what the hell? Anyone here have the US versions handy? I don't.


I don't trust Spizer's accuracy. He's making educated guesses just like everyone else, frankly.

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Postby Xenu » Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Why hasn't this leaked yet?
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