Dylan
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Rspaight
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BOB DYLAN SACD SHOOTOUT
Part Three - Infidels (famously breaking his streak of four studio albums starting with "S")
Track sampled: License To Kill
The contenders:
LP - Columbia QC 38819
Digital! Quiet! Clean! I don't think I've ever played this LP before (it came into my possession well after I got the CD), and by the sound of it, neither did the previous owners. (Price tag sez $6.50.) This is one quiet LP. Deep, tight bass. Slight edge to the vocals, but the harmonica at the end sounds great. Guitar and keys a bit too subtle, but what's there is nicely defined. Cymbals fairly recessed, too.
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CD - Columbia CK 38819
As expected, this is a *bit* better. Less edge on the voice. (Though the harmonica sounds worse. Hmmmm.) Same deep bass and drum impact, but a bit crisper, since the mids and highs are a bit more forward, which also means the cymbals, guitar and keyboards have more presence. Very similar to the LP overall, though.
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SACD - Columbia CH 90317
CD layer: Louder! Vocals are the best yet. Nice and smooth. The EQ has been further refined, resulting in best-yet definition of mids and highs. Harmonica back on par with the LP. Surprisingly, a definite upgrade from the old CD.
SACD layer: Louder still, which I found odd. Similar to Highway 61, this sounds very similar to the CD layer, with just another dollop of presence and detail. (The individual strings on the guitar stand out a little more, for instance.) *Very* subtle improvement, but an improvement.
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I was curious about this one, as it was an early digital recording. How much room for improvement is there when the original recording was probably quite close to CD resolution to begin with? Well, as it turns out, enough. The new disc is noticeably nicer than the old. As I expected, though, all the versions are very close, with no big winners or losers. The LP is simply a big black CD, and I'm sure on better equipment it would sound even more similar than it did for me.
Next up (probably tomorrow): Freewheelin'. For all mankind.
Ryan
Part Three - Infidels (famously breaking his streak of four studio albums starting with "S")
Track sampled: License To Kill
The contenders:
LP - Columbia QC 38819
Digital! Quiet! Clean! I don't think I've ever played this LP before (it came into my possession well after I got the CD), and by the sound of it, neither did the previous owners. (Price tag sez $6.50.) This is one quiet LP. Deep, tight bass. Slight edge to the vocals, but the harmonica at the end sounds great. Guitar and keys a bit too subtle, but what's there is nicely defined. Cymbals fairly recessed, too.
-----------
CD - Columbia CK 38819
As expected, this is a *bit* better. Less edge on the voice. (Though the harmonica sounds worse. Hmmmm.) Same deep bass and drum impact, but a bit crisper, since the mids and highs are a bit more forward, which also means the cymbals, guitar and keyboards have more presence. Very similar to the LP overall, though.
-----------
SACD - Columbia CH 90317
CD layer: Louder! Vocals are the best yet. Nice and smooth. The EQ has been further refined, resulting in best-yet definition of mids and highs. Harmonica back on par with the LP. Surprisingly, a definite upgrade from the old CD.
SACD layer: Louder still, which I found odd. Similar to Highway 61, this sounds very similar to the CD layer, with just another dollop of presence and detail. (The individual strings on the guitar stand out a little more, for instance.) *Very* subtle improvement, but an improvement.
-----------
I was curious about this one, as it was an early digital recording. How much room for improvement is there when the original recording was probably quite close to CD resolution to begin with? Well, as it turns out, enough. The new disc is noticeably nicer than the old. As I expected, though, all the versions are very close, with no big winners or losers. The LP is simply a big black CD, and I'm sure on better equipment it would sound even more similar than it did for me.
Next up (probably tomorrow): Freewheelin'. For all mankind.
Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney
SACD layer: Louder still, which I found odd. Similar to Highway 61, this sounds very similar to the CD layer, with just another dollop of presence and detail.
So how much is a "dollop" anyways? I've got to be honest. With my new DAC I'm hearing detail and *presence* in CDs I never heard before. So far I'm not convinced that I'm going to hear any appreciable difference in SACDs in anything other than an expensive player. But I'm curious to read your subsequent shootouts.
Dr. Ron 
TM "Do it 'till you're sick of it. Do it 'till you can't do it no more." Jesse Winchester
TM "Do it 'till you're sick of it. Do it 'till you can't do it no more." Jesse Winchester-
Rspaight
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So how much is a "dollop" anyways?
More than a pinch, less than a helping.
With my new DAC I'm hearing detail and *presence* in CDs I never heard before. So far I'm not convinced that I'm going to hear any appreciable difference in SACDs in anything other than an expensive player.
You may be right, especially if you stick to stereo. With my crummy equipment, it's a difference but not a huge one. With a great CD DAC vs. a modest SACD player, it might be even more narrow. But the beauty of hybrids is that you can get 'em now and reap whatever SACD benefits there are later.
Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney
Rspaight wrote: But the beauty of hybrids is that you can get 'em now and reap whatever SACD benefits there are later.
True. And truth be known, I'll probably sooner than later buy a player. But I've got a sneaking suspicion that should I listen to a SACD on a cheapo player [under $200] I won't be smiling *that* smile. And so far, given that there are so few SACD titles that I'm interested in, spending $1000-plus for a quality unit doesn't make much sense. Not yet, anyways.
Dr. Ron TM "Do it 'till you're sick of it. Do it 'till you can't do it no more." Jesse Winchester
TM "Do it 'till you're sick of it. Do it 'till you can't do it no more." Jesse Winchester-
Rspaight
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BOB DYLAN SACD SHOOTOUT
Part Four - The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan (who's the pretty young thing on the cover?)*
Track sampled: Don't Think Twice, It's All Right
The contenders:
LP - Columbia JC 8786
Nice and natural-sounding. The guitar picking sounds "sharp", the voice is present and clear. Somehow, a very slightly crackly old LP sounds "right" for this music.
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CD - Columbia CK 8786
More forward, not as realistic. There's some audible hiss. The harmonica seems edgier. Not bad, but the LP's better.
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SACD - Columbia CH 90321
CD layer: Louder! Just as much hiss, if not a bit a more. The guitar sounds more full-bodied than either the CD or LP, and the voice a bit more robust. Closer to the LP than the CD, but still more "in your face" than the LP.
SACD layer: Another level of detail, and the guitar sounds its best here. Interestingly, the hiss seems a bit quieter here, closer to the CD than the SACD's CD layer. Weird -- I may well be imagining that.
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Emotionally, the LP does it for me here. The SACD (especially the SACD layer) kills it in terms of presence and detail, but like I said above, something about this music just seems at home on LP. I'll take either layer of the SACD over the old CD, though.
Next up (probably tomorrow, for real this time): John Wesley Harding. (Which, contrary to a previous post, I have no vinyl for, and neither do I have vinyl for Bringing It All Back Home, nor an old CD for Another Side. You know you have too much music when you have no idea what you have.)
Ryan
* A complete tangent -- since I had all three versions sitting out, I checked out the differences in the covers. The LP had what I assume was the old "Stereo 360" logo clumsily "blocked out". The old CD had the same block at the top, but it was *much* subtler. The song titles at the bottom were absent on the old CD, and you could tell they were actually covered up because the patterns in the snow where the titles used to be were definitely different than on the LP cover. The SACD cover crops out the very top of the cover (and includes more image at the bottom), so the area blocked out of the other two is no longer there. The titles are back at the bottom, but in a slightly different place. Columbia obviously went back to the original elements, though, because the snow patterns match the LP.
This is the sort of sad thing I find interesting. Kill me.
Part Four - The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan (who's the pretty young thing on the cover?)*
Track sampled: Don't Think Twice, It's All Right
The contenders:
LP - Columbia JC 8786
Nice and natural-sounding. The guitar picking sounds "sharp", the voice is present and clear. Somehow, a very slightly crackly old LP sounds "right" for this music.
-----------
CD - Columbia CK 8786
More forward, not as realistic. There's some audible hiss. The harmonica seems edgier. Not bad, but the LP's better.
-----------
SACD - Columbia CH 90321
CD layer: Louder! Just as much hiss, if not a bit a more. The guitar sounds more full-bodied than either the CD or LP, and the voice a bit more robust. Closer to the LP than the CD, but still more "in your face" than the LP.
SACD layer: Another level of detail, and the guitar sounds its best here. Interestingly, the hiss seems a bit quieter here, closer to the CD than the SACD's CD layer. Weird -- I may well be imagining that.
-----------
Emotionally, the LP does it for me here. The SACD (especially the SACD layer) kills it in terms of presence and detail, but like I said above, something about this music just seems at home on LP. I'll take either layer of the SACD over the old CD, though.
Next up (probably tomorrow, for real this time): John Wesley Harding. (Which, contrary to a previous post, I have no vinyl for, and neither do I have vinyl for Bringing It All Back Home, nor an old CD for Another Side. You know you have too much music when you have no idea what you have.)
Ryan
* A complete tangent -- since I had all three versions sitting out, I checked out the differences in the covers. The LP had what I assume was the old "Stereo 360" logo clumsily "blocked out". The old CD had the same block at the top, but it was *much* subtler. The song titles at the bottom were absent on the old CD, and you could tell they were actually covered up because the patterns in the snow where the titles used to be were definitely different than on the LP cover. The SACD cover crops out the very top of the cover (and includes more image at the bottom), so the area blocked out of the other two is no longer there. The titles are back at the bottom, but in a slightly different place. Columbia obviously went back to the original elements, though, because the snow patterns match the LP.
This is the sort of sad thing I find interesting. Kill me.
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney
Interesting observations regarding preferring the LP even though the new CD/SACD layers offer more detail and presence. I *hear* you and all, and might even agree when I get a chance to compare for myself. It sounds like what you're saying, much like preferring the DCC "Highway 61" over the SACD, is that warmth is more important than detail. Sure wish I had the titles you've got so we could compare notes. Someday.
Dr. Ron TM "Do it 'till you're sick of it. Do it 'till you can't do it no more." Jesse Winchester
TM "Do it 'till you're sick of it. Do it 'till you can't do it no more." Jesse Winchester
Rspaight wrote:Next up (probably tomorrow, for real this time): John Wesley Harding. (Which, contrary to a previous post, I have no vinyl for, and neither do I have vinyl for Bringing It All Back Home, nor an old CD for Another Side. You know you have too much music when you have no idea what you have.)
Do you need to borrow my Dylan collection to round out your shootout?
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Rspaight
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Ron wrote:Interesting observations regarding preferring the LP even though the new CD/SACD layers offer more detail and presence. I *hear* you and all, and might even agree when I get a chance to compare for myself. It sounds like what you're saying, much like preferring the DCC "Highway 61" over the SACD, is that warmth is more important than detail. Sure wish I had the titles you've got so we could compare notes. Someday.
Put it this way: if I wanted to listen analytically, trying to catch the subtle details and construction/arrangement/mix stuff, I'd grab the SACDs. My "I like this" pick is what I'd listen to if I was just relaxing and enjoying the performance. The Freewheelin' thing, like I said is purely irrational. The SACD sounds better, but the LP made me smile.
Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney
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Rspaight
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Patrick M wrote:Do you need to borrow my Dylan collection to round out your shootout?
That could be fun -- mebbe we could get together some day and Dylan ourselves to death. I'm going to be knee-deep in the race meet starting a week from today, but maybe after that? PM me if you're interested.
Ryan
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney
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Rspaight
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BOB DYLAN SACD SHOOTOUT
Part Five - Nashville Skyline (delaying JWH in case I meet up with Patrick and get access to vinyl)
Tonight assisted by the lovely Thesia, which leads to some surprising results...
Track sampled: Tonight I'll Be Staying Here With You
The contenders:
LP - Columbia PC 9825
Urk -- this must be a crummy pressing (it looks like a reissue). Murky sound, muddy bass, thin highs, edgy voice. Not a whole lot of fun to listen to.
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CD - Columbia CK 9825
Definitely better than the LP. Much clearer, voice more forward and smoother, better highs. The guitar is still thin-sounding (moreso than I think was intended) but more natural than the vinyl. Seems more dynamic (less compressed), too.
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SACD - Columbia CH 90319
CD layer: Louder! Big improvement over the other two. Drums much better, the voice is better defined, all around a layer of murk has been lifted. This is easily the biggest improvement I've heard thus far.
SACD layer: What I said about the CD layer applies here, plus everything is more detailed, but maybe a little *too* much -- the voice was just a little too in-your-face, and the overall effect is a little chilly.
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With Thesia's assistance (I love the nom de internet, by the way), I was able to blind-test the two layers of the new disc. I actually thought the CD layer was the SACD, as it was warmer and more "musical." She agreed completely. Very strange, but I gotta call 'em as I hear 'em. As always, there's more detail to be had on the SACD side, but after Highway and Freewheelin' (and to an extent Blood) I guess I'm establishing a track record here of liking a bit less detail and a bit more "feel." So please take that into account.
The new disc absolutely slaughters my LP and the old CD though, so either way it's the one to get, and you can listen to whichever version you like.
(Reminds me of a story I heard that John Landis had a touch of picture degradation introduced into the new DVD of Animal House because he thought the fancy new transfer looked *too* good. Maybe he's onto something.)
Next up (probably tomorrow): a break for the weekend. Maybe a CD-only shootout of Oh Mercy if I have time.
Ryan
Part Five - Nashville Skyline (delaying JWH in case I meet up with Patrick and get access to vinyl)
Tonight assisted by the lovely Thesia, which leads to some surprising results...
Track sampled: Tonight I'll Be Staying Here With You
The contenders:
LP - Columbia PC 9825
Urk -- this must be a crummy pressing (it looks like a reissue). Murky sound, muddy bass, thin highs, edgy voice. Not a whole lot of fun to listen to.
-----------
CD - Columbia CK 9825
Definitely better than the LP. Much clearer, voice more forward and smoother, better highs. The guitar is still thin-sounding (moreso than I think was intended) but more natural than the vinyl. Seems more dynamic (less compressed), too.
-----------
SACD - Columbia CH 90319
CD layer: Louder! Big improvement over the other two. Drums much better, the voice is better defined, all around a layer of murk has been lifted. This is easily the biggest improvement I've heard thus far.
SACD layer: What I said about the CD layer applies here, plus everything is more detailed, but maybe a little *too* much -- the voice was just a little too in-your-face, and the overall effect is a little chilly.
-----------
With Thesia's assistance (I love the nom de internet, by the way), I was able to blind-test the two layers of the new disc. I actually thought the CD layer was the SACD, as it was warmer and more "musical." She agreed completely. Very strange, but I gotta call 'em as I hear 'em. As always, there's more detail to be had on the SACD side, but after Highway and Freewheelin' (and to an extent Blood) I guess I'm establishing a track record here of liking a bit less detail and a bit more "feel." So please take that into account.
The new disc absolutely slaughters my LP and the old CD though, so either way it's the one to get, and you can listen to whichever version you like.
(Reminds me of a story I heard that John Landis had a touch of picture degradation introduced into the new DVD of Animal House because he thought the fancy new transfer looked *too* good. Maybe he's onto something.)
Next up (probably tomorrow): a break for the weekend. Maybe a CD-only shootout of Oh Mercy if I have time.
Ryan
Last edited by Rspaight on Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RQOTW: "I'll make sure that our future is defined not by the letters ACLU, but by the letters USA." -- Mitt Romney