Bowie RCA discs

[damianm]

Thanks, both of you.

[Crummy Old Label Avatar]

So what's it all mean? Is it simply that you pays your money (or you chooses your torrent file) and you takes your choice? Do you prefer frownies or smilies?

Like everything else, I guess.

Krab, which versions do you prefer, then?

I know a lot of people like the Au20 Rykos best. I've never heard one, though.

[MK]

I'd get the regular Rykodisc CD's and add some EQ. They're relatively cheap, probably no compression or limiting, not much denoising (if any depending on the release), and except for Young Americans, from the original masters. Seriously, there's no DEFINITIVE set, but if you get the aluminum Rykodiscs, you restore the bass cloud, take out like 2 decibels at 8k, and you're gold.

BTW, I'm not a fan of Young Americans, I only like those two hit singles.

[Xenu]

Well, I just got JPs disc, and...

His "Heroes" (German) does not sync with my Japanese disc. So it *is* true that at least some are different.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

[J_Partyka]

Oh, goodness.

Do they sound noticeably different?

[krabapple]

So what's it all mean? Is it simply that you pays your money (or you chooses your torrent file) and you takes your choice? Do you prefer frownies or smilies?

Indeed. All this sort of analysis can tell you are clues as to WHY something sounds the way it does...in a kind of mundane fashion (this one sounds 'crisper' -- hey, whaddaya know, it has more treble energy than the other). Given different EQ profiles, matching levels is something of a conundrum too.

Note too that this was just a 12-second clip, heavily weighted with low "E" notes in the bass. Profiles of the entire track might look different (but not much, I expect, unless the EQ was altered during the track).

Like everything else, I guess.

Krab, which versions do you prefer, then?

I haven't formed a preference with these clips. I own some EMIs and a couple of SACDs, and they sound fine to me. I sold my RCAs and Rykos years ago. My comparisons weren't anything close to rigorous then.

It's interesting to me that the Au20 and the EMI have that interchannel difference in the bass (less bass in right channel than left), whereas the RCA has about the same bass levels in both channels. Perhaps this reflects the use of master tape on Au20/EMI versus RCA? Maybe the 'bass cloud' is simply a rebalancing of the channels on the RCA. Possibly too, the EMI was simply a re-master of the Au20 *digital* master...was there any confirmation in the press that the EMIs went back to the master tapes?

Lastly, if anyone has the 'plain' Ryko of this track, I'd like to add it to the analysis. Just need the first 15 sec or so, in flac format.

[damianm]

I have the silver, non-Au20 Ryko CD of ChangesOneBowie. Does that qualify as "[a] 'plain' Ryko"? I'm sort of lost by this point.

[Ess Ay Cee Dee]

I have the silver, non-Au20 Ryko CD of ChangesOneBowie. Does that qualify as "[a] 'plain' Ryko"? I'm sort of lost by this point.

I think that qualifies. I would assume the version of "Jean Genie" on there is exactly the same as the one on the Ryko Aladdin Sane. There's only one version, so I can't imagine they would have mastered it twice.

If that doesn't work out, I do have an original Ryko AS and could certainly send a sample. I'd just need some time to dig for it. My collection is in no particular order right now.

[Xenu]

It's interesting to me that the Au20 and the EMI have that interchannel difference in the bass (less bass in right channel than left), whereas the RCA has about the same bass levels in both channels. Perhaps this reflects the use of master tape on Au20/EMI versus RCA? Maybe the 'bass cloud' is simply a rebalancing of the channels on the RCA. Possibly too, the EMI was simply a re-master of the Au20 *digital* master...was there any confirmation in the press that the EMIs went back to the master tapes?

Well, Krab, by "EMI" are you referring to Virgin or to *EMI*? Remember that the early-nineties EMI discs are just clones of the aluminum Ryko discs.

The Virgins discs are generally new efforts, although Hunky Dory is a digital clone with some added EQ/NR.

Lastly, if anyone has the 'plain' Ryko of this track, I'd like to add it to the analysis. Just need the first 15 sec or so, in flac format.

I don't, sadly.

Would you be interested in doing a frequency analysis of two Heroes clips? To answer Jeff's question: they sound a bit different, but I can't really explain the difference.

[damianm]

Well, Krab, by "EMI" are you referring to Virgin or to *EMI*? Remember that the early-nineties EMI discs are just clones of the aluminum Ryko discs.

I've just sent Krab the sample. It's actually off a '90s EMI disc, now that I look at it.

[Xenu]

So who wants this disc, then? I'll try to get them out tomorrow if I get a decent idea of the demand.

(Needless to say, PM me your address if you're interested)

[krabapple]

I have the silver, non-Au20 Ryko CD of ChangesOneBowie. Does that qualify as "[a] 'plain' Ryko"? I'm sort of lost by this point.

I think that qualifies. I would assume the version of "Jean Genie" on there is exactly the same as the one on the Ryko Aladdin Sane. There's only one version, so I can't imagine they would have mastered it twice.

If that doesn't work out, I do have an original Ryko AS and could certainly send a sample. I'd just need some time to dig for it. My collection is in no particular order right now.

Actually, mastering of track on a compilation could well be different than the mastering on its original album. So it'd be best to have it from the Ryko Aladdin Sane -- or both. But at this point I'm not going to present all against all combinations, it's just too much info.

And by EMI, I've always meant the Virgin/EMI -- the current remaster series. I'll revise that on the graphs, calling them 'Virgin' for clarity.

And Xenu -- yes, send me the Heroes versions, I'd be interested to compare them.

[Xenu]

Krab, sorry for the delay...really busy week.

They're going up right now

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/blackoutjapanese.flac
http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/blackoutgerman.flac

I altered nothing in either of them, so the Japanese is currently much lower in volume.

[Xenu]

OK. The sending out of the RCA discs is being delayed for two reasons:

a) Andreas is sending me a few more that I didn't have, and

b) I'm working on a SPECIAL PROJECT for Luke right now that, come to think of it, some here might appreciate. I'll start a new thread when I'm reading to distribute.

[krabapple]

Krab, sorry for the delay...really busy week.

They're going up right now

well, they ain't clones, that for sure. This is without level matching:

Code: Select all


               
              Ger       Left   Right   Jpn   Left   Right
Min Sample Value:      -27645   -27700      -17766   -18230
Max Sample Value:      27114   27278         18941   18315
Peak Amplitude:         -1.47   -1.46         -4.76   -5.05
Possibly Clipped:             0   0      0        0
DC Offset:               -0.032   -0.028      0   0
Minimum RMS Power        -36.23   -32.21      -37.06   -32.72
Maximum RMS Power:     -12.57   -12.22      -15.21   -14.4
Average RMS Power:        -18.19   -17.97      -20.74   -20.09
Total RMS Power           -17.72   -17.5      -20.31   -19.68
Actual Bit Depth:      16 Bits   16 Bits      16 Bits   16 Bits
Peak - Avg            16.72   16.51      15.98   15.04
Using RMS Window of 50 ms                  



and this is after level-matching via replaygain values (added 2.07 dB to the Jpn file)



One predicts this could sound like the Jpn has an upper bass/midrange trough compared to the Ger (or conversely, that the Ger is more 'present'), after such level matching.

.