Elton John (Best CD's)

[JWB]

Andreas -

I have a DJM s/t and Captain Fantastic on the way.

I'm a new Elton John fan, so I don't have any reference for comparison. I bought all the MFSL's, and DJM for the rest. After Captain Fantastic, I bought the Polydors, but now people are saying that some of the Polydors are "bad"...so I don't have a fucking clue.

[Andreas]

I am a new fan of his albums as well. So far, "Elton John" is my favorite. I simply love pretentious self-important bombastic arrangements on the top of excellent compositions. "The King Must Die"....

[lukpac]

Andreas, you might want to check the archives - a lot of the Polydor CDs are identical to the DJMs.

[Andreas]

Luke,

I know that. It was metionned in this thread, and I was already commenting in a previous post.

But I would be interested in comparisons of those that are not identical:
MFSL versus DJM for all titles.
DJM Elton John versus MCA versus Polydor.
DJM Madman versus MCA/Polydor (if they are different).
DJM Captain Fantastic versus MCA/Polydor.

[JWB]

I do have a Polydor "Captain Fantastic" and a DJM on the way, so I should be able to answer that query.

[Mike Hunte]

Elton's wig is too tight. It veils the sound.

[Dob]

I am planning to buy all the remaining DJM CDs since they sound phenomenal, like a DCC.

IMO, the DCC Daniel (Gr Hits) and Crocodile Rock are poor...far too dull. It sounds to me as if SH tried to tame the nasty treble harshness of Elton's voice on that album and went way too far. IMO, the Japan mini-LP of Don't Shoot is OK (all things considered) but is not for treblephobes.

OTOH, the SH version of Daniel from ROTS Vol 4 sounds very good. It is a different mix and has a different vocal take, however.

For Madman, you should try and find a needle drop of SH's vinyl version. I did a comparison with the MFSL and the Japan mini-LP a couple of years back, and here's what I noted:

Tiny Dancer: The MFSL has too much midbass, but the treble seems OK (from what I can hear of it!). The DCC, OTOH, is a bit lean in the midbass, and the treble is peaky on the vocals and cymbals. The Japan has a nice midbass tonality, but it's also too dull, the midrange is not as natural, and the soundstage is narrow. I think the MFSL would be the easiest to fix/remaster. The DCC is better than the Japan.

Levon: The MFSL is very bass heavy and dull, the Japan is dull and pinched. The DCC is very nice - huge soundstage, lots of detail, good tonality. There are moments where it is a bit peaky as well...but the DCC is much better than the others here.

Razor Face: The DCC wins again, though it's not as good sounding as Levon, and it could also use a notch EQ for the peaky highs. Overall soundstage and tonality better than either the MFSL or the Japan.

Madman Across The Water/Indian Sunset: The Japan scores a surprise win on both of these. The MFSL has the same midbass peak, which gives the vocals an unnatural tonality,and the treble is too dull. The DCC, while having better treble extension and tonality overall than the MFSL, is a tad lean in the midbass, which makes the vocals somewhat thin. The Japan has the best vocal tonality - it strikes a good compromise between the MFSL and the DCC. The treble extension is perhaps lacking the last bit of detail that the DCC has, however the overall tonality is better, and the soundstage is wider.

Holiday Inn: Similar to Tiny Dancer...the MFSL seems like it might be the easiest to fix/remaster. The DCC is a very close second, and the Japan is a distant third.

Rotten Peaches: This track sounds like it has problems in general...the DCC strikes the best overall compromise. The MFSL and the Japan both sound dull and congested compared to the DCC.

All The Nasties: Again, similar to Tiny Dancer...the DCC sounds quite peaky on this one, the Japan sounds pinched and dull.

Goodbye: Another win for the DCC. Very nice vocal tonality with just the right amount of treble boost. In comparison, the MFSL and Japan sound very similar -- too dull and not as detailed.

I should note that the needle drop I have was very lightly EQed by the fellow that did it, because he felt the flat needle drop didn't have the same tonality as the LP.

Compared to that, I find the sound on the MFSL Honkly Chateau a bit veiled.

The two DCC tracks from Gr Hits do sound better than the MFSL. Haven't heard the remaster of this one.

[Andreas]

Dob,

thanks for your reply. As you see, there are just a bit too many versions out there to give a definitive overview. I will concentrate on the DJM CDs for now, then look for those old Polydor/MCA CDs that are supposedly different (e.g. Madman, Captain Fantastic), and look for the remaining MFSL CDs (except Madman which people seem to hate) at the same time.

Problem with needle drops: I would prefer to know the person who did the transfer, and how he did it. An unknown copy of some needle drop of unknown origin is not that interesting for me.

[Dob]

...those old Polydor/MCA CDs that are supposedly different (e.g. Madman, Captain Fantastic)...

I have an old MCA (made in Japan) Captain Fantastic, and it sounds good to me, but I haven't compared to anything.

...look for the remaining MFSL CDs (except Madman which people seem to hate)...

As noted above, I certainly don't hate the MFSL Madman. Overall, I think it is better than the Japan mini-LP (which I believe is similar, if not identical to, the regular Rocket remaster). But I seem to be one of the few people who listen for (and hear) track variations...as a result, I often don't categorically rank one album version over another.

Problem with needle drops: I would prefer to know the person who did the transfer, and how he did it. An unknown copy of some needle drop of unknown origin is not that interesting for me.

Well, I do know the fellow that did mine and I know how he did it...or, at least, how he told me he did it. But the proof is in the listening, no?

I have a version of the Stones' Under My Thumb, remastered by "mickboy," that is the best I've ever heard. But I don't know mickboy, I don't know what he used as a source, and I have no idea how he did it. Does it matter?

[Andreas]

Could we be more specific about "DJM CDs", please? (Also directed at me...)

My DJM CDs are W.Germany discs and have Polygram catalogue numbers. Apparently, those pressed in the UK have completely different catalogue numbers (e.g. "DJM CD1"). Maybe the W. German DJM CDs are always identical to the Polydor CDs, and only the UK DJM CD are (sometimes) different? I am confused.

(http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showt ... hp?t=56154)

[Mike Hunte]

Could we be more specific about "DJM CDs", please? (Also directed at me...)

My DJM CDs are W.Germany discs and have Polygram catalogue numbers. Apparently, those pressed in the UK have completely different catalogue numbers (e.g. "DJM CD1"). Maybe the W. German DJM CDs are always identical to the Polydor CDs, and only the UK DJM CD are (sometimes) different? I am confused.

Regarding the self-titled EJ album, it's the UK DJM that's the clone of the later Polydor. It's the W. German (and Japanese) DJM that's the unique (and more natural) mastering. It also has the alternate "Sixty Years On."

[JWB]

So is that *5* masterings of the self-titled?

- W. German/Japanese DJM
- UK DJM/Polydor
- MCA
- Rocket remaster
- SACD

Which is best?

On the German DJM, is "Sixty Years On" an alternate mix or alternate take or what?

[Mike Hunte]

So is that *5* masterings of the self-titled?

- W. German/Japanese DJM
- UK DJM/Polydor
- MCA
- Rocket remaster
- SACD

Correct...at least that's all I know of on CD.

Which is best?

Best is in the eyes of the beholder. This beholder likes the German/Japanese DJM the best. It's the easiest on the ears - different than any other CD mastering of this title. Maybe, not the "master tape" sound...but who cares. If you like the "DCC sound," you'll find this disc very similar in tonality. The MCA is garbage. Tape dropouts, crap sound. The SACD is compressed pretty nasty on the redbook layer, but hyper detailed - can be quite a bit fatiguing on the rockers. The Rocket sounds like a souped up version of the UK DJM/Polydor - similar tonality, but punched up a bit. All, IMHO of course.

On the German DJM, is "Sixty Years On" an alternate mix or alternate take or what?

Alternate mix. It's longer. The fadeup at the beginning is different.

[Mike Hunte]

What...JWB, you no likey the German EJ CD ?

Well, don't feel bad, you're not alone...lol!

Many don't - I'm definitely the rarity. It's probably at least a generation or two down from the master, doesn't have much (any) detail or presence in the highs, can sound lumpy and muted, lacks the "cleanliness" of the UK...

It's an acquired taste...I'll admit.

[JWB]

I *do* like it Mike - I accidentally bought two copies.