Anyone have the Beach Boys "Wild Honey" Pastmaster

Just what the name says.
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lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:03 pm

Andreas wrote:Bootom line, the Pastmasters Friends does sound better than any other CD version. This is completely subjective and can not be proven objectively. The facts about the volume and clippings are completely objective. The correlation between those two aspects is just an educated guess on my side.


I don't find anything wrong with your preference for the PM version, and I might like that better myself if I heard both (I've heard neither). I just don't agree that the volume/clipping is the issue here.

An interesting thought on the issue:

http://www.rogernichols.com/EQ/EQ_2000_02.html

Roger Nichols wrote:Don’t tell anyone this, but during the mastering we turned up the overall level of the whole album 6dB. It was exactly a shift up of 1 bit. No math would be performed on the data to raise the noise level, but because of it there were a few overs on loud passages during snare drum hits. We listened carefully and decided that since the overs were not audible that we would leave them alone. We tried using limiting, but you could hear a slight change in the sound. We sent an over list along with the master to the CD plant.
"I know because it is impossible for a tape to hold the compression levels of these treble boosted MFSL's like Something/Anything. The metal particulate on the tape would shatter and all you'd hear is distortion if even that." - VD
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Postby MK » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:21 pm

Anyone else think the HDCD's are on the bright side? Not TOO bright, I guess, but it's definitely been brightened up a bit to make it pop.
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Postby lukpac » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:25 pm

Of the Beach Boys, you mean? I was under the impression (per SH) that that's how those tapes sound, although you never know.
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Postby MK » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:57 pm

The 2001 HDCD Beach Boys remasters sound brighter than the Razor & Tie 40 Greatest Hits and DCC comps and other discs I've heard. To match, you've got to take out something like 2 or 3 db at 10k and maybe 1 or 2 at 6k, that is, after you take it down to 60% or so of the volume. Depends on the track. Still better than the 1990 twofers because the bass cloud has been shaved or something on those CD's.
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Postby Dob » Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:34 pm

lukpac wrote:Of the Beach Boys, you mean? I was under the impression (per SH) that that's how those tapes sound, although you never know.

That's how they sound (brightness somewhere between the DCC and the Linett)...if we also accept the SH statement that the Pastmasters are flat transfers.

Comparing the Pastmasters to the DCC comps reveals that the Pastmasters versions are almost always brighter, and I often prefer the flat transfer over the (sometimes) a bit "soft" sounding SH version.

The Linett versions are often (not always) brighter than the Pastmasters but the problem is the "pinched" sound that results from bad upper midrange/lower treble EQ, not "insect killing" upper treble. They also sound more compressed, but that could be a result of the EQ and the maximization.

That said, for some (mostly lesser known) tracks the Linetts use obviously much better sources...for example, I'm Bugged At My Old Man (FWIW). There are other examples, but that's the only one that comes to mind right now.
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Postby Xenu » Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:59 pm

I certainly would not mind CDRs of some of these.

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Postby Xenu » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:38 pm

So I got some of these from Dob.

Verdict? Uh...they're OK. Nothing spectacular. The fake stereo tracks suck immensely! The balance isn't *quite* right (the discs tend to favor the right channel slightly). There're some wonky tape issues, especially right at the beginnings of a few tracks and throughout "She Knows Me Too Well." Tonality-wise, they seem to be pretty similar to the 2001 reissues, except lower in volume and slightly muffled, with slightly more tape hiss. They're fine, but I don't get the spooging going on at sh.tv one bit.
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Postby MK » Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:45 pm

I think MOST of Today and Summer Days (and Nights) can be found on 40 Greatest Hits/Endless Summer/Spirit Of America. You may be able to make a definitive two-fer from those, with only a few tracks that aren't mastered by Steve - those you could get from "Pastmasters," except for the Duophonic-'folded'-to-garbage tracks, in which case you probably need the HDCD remaster, I guess, and tinker with those on CoolEdit.
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Postby Dob » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:26 pm

MK wrote:...with only a few tracks that aren't mastered by Steve - those you could get from "Pastmasters," except for the Duophonic-'folded'-to-garbage tracks, in which case you probably need the HDCD remaster, I guess, and tinker with those on CoolEdit.

IIRC, all of the fake stereo tracks on the Pastmasters CDs are the "hits" and can be found on the DCC Endless Summer/Spirit of America.
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Postby Dob » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:06 pm

Xenu wrote:Tonality-wise, they seem to be pretty similar to the 2001 reissues, except lower in volume and slightly muffled, with slightly more tape hiss. They're fine, but I don't get the spooging going on at sh.tv one bit.

Have you heard the DCC CDs? If so, how would you compare the corresponding tracks?

I always got the impression from the SHites that the DCCs were the ones to get and the only reason to get the Pastmasters was if you had to have a Beach Boys track that SH didn't remaster.

As far as the PMs vs the 2001 Linetts, I'm reading that you prefer the Linetts, correct?
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Postby MK » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:27 pm

Someone posted on SH that Amusement Park USA and Bugged at My Old Man were two duophonic fold-downs, and an archived post said on the All Summer Long Pastmasters disc, the two hits were duophonic
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Postby Dob » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:15 pm

I liked Amusement Park USA and Bugged much better on the Linett, and I particularly remember Bugged sounding horrendous on the PM, but I didn't pay attention to whether they were fake stereo. They may be...I just assumed that the Linett used a better source.

Summer Days is, IMO, one of the worst PMs. I only liked it for three tracks (for the others I chose either the DCC or the Linett)...but then again, one of those tracks was California Girls.
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Postby Xenu » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:55 am

Dob wrote:
As far as the PMs vs the 2001 Linetts, I'm reading that you prefer the Linetts, correct?


Thus far, I suppose so.
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Postby Andreas » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:11 am

Xenu wrote:Verdict? Uh...they're OK. Nothing spectacular. The fake stereo tracks suck immensely! The balance isn't *quite* right (the discs tend to favor the right channel slightly). There're some wonky tape issues, especially right at the beginnings of a few tracks and throughout "She Knows Me Too Well." Tonality-wise, they seem to be pretty similar to the 2001 reissues, except lower in volume and slightly muffled, with slightly more tape hiss. They're fine, but I don't get the spooging going on at sh.tv one bit.

Which ones are you talking about? You surely can't discuss them all in just one paragraph. That would be like discussing all the Stones SACDs in one paragraph without differentiation.

Wonky tapes? With the exception of those fake stereo sources (e.g. 409 on Little Deuce Coupe), these are the master tapes, if we can believe Steve.

Also, when comparing, did you adjust the volume? What you describe as "muffled" is simply a more prominent bottom end, I guess. ("bass cloud")

The Pastmasters Friends and Wild Honey have given me totally different impressions of these albums. They seem dark and heavy now, not garage-like and superficial.

I don't have the Pastmasters Today or Summer Days yet, so I can't comment on those.
They're fine, but I don't get the spooging going on at sh.tv one bit.
Well, if you are a Beach Boys fan, and you have a chance to upgrade just some songs to just some extent, you simply do it. No question.
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Postby Xenu » Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:08 pm

Andreas wrote:Which ones are you talking about? You surely can't discuss them all in just one paragraph. That would be like discussing all the Stones SACDs in one paragraph without differentiation.


With the Stones discs, you could say "They're pretty good, but not perfect. Some suspect sources, some NR."

Wonky tapes? With the exception of those fake stereo sources (e.g. 409 on Little Deuce Coupe), these are the master tapes, if we can believe Steve.


Right. Except by "master tapes," you mean "COPIES of the master tapes." Lots of stuff can go wrong with copying.
Also, when comparing, did you adjust the volume? What you describe as "muffled" is simply a more prominent bottom end, I guess. ("bass cloud")


Yes, I knew to adjust the volume. There's really not that much more of a "bass cloud" on the ones I have versus the MoFi and DCC and 2001 versions of the tracks.

I don't have the Pastmasters Today or Summer Days yet, so I can't comment on those.


Ahh. See, those're the two I'm least impressed by! The earlier albums sound fine, but "Today" has a few treble issues, and "Summer Days" is just kind of blah.

Well, if you are a Beach Boys fan, and you have a chance to upgrade just some songs to just some extent, you simply do it. No question.


I understand that, but at the same time, "OH MY GOD THE PASTMASTERS THEY ARE AMAZING OH WOW I JUST GOT 'SURFIN' SAFARI!' AND OMGOMGOMGOMGLOL" might be a bit much.
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