Must Own Albums of ______

[britre]

Here is the first issue,



And here is the one you want;



The new version has heavy silkscreening, a smaller package, and a nicer booklet.

The older ersion has laser etching instead of silkscreening, and does not sond as good being compressed and not as clear as the newer pressing.
You will also note the first release is a "Limited Edition" while the second release is a "Collectors Edition". The second release is harder to find than the Limited first. Go figure...[/img]

[Patrick M]

Hey britre, why don't you send copies of the first and second editions of that WYWH gold CD to Luke for analysis? Actually, I can send the first issue myself.

[britre]

Hey britre, why don't you send copies of the first and second editions of that WYWH gold CD to Luke for analysis? Actually, I can send the first issue myself.

I sold my first edition as I only collect top of the line Floyd audio nowadays. I used to have everything and anything, but bootlegs took up too much space and I needed some cash.

But I do not mind sharing a CDR copy with Luke if he sends me a place to send that copy too...

[lukpac]

E-mail me...

[Patrick M]

Just for fun, here's the waveform for the first edition of the WYWH MasterSound CD:



And here are the stats:

Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32741 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32766
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 465 381
DC Offset: .002 .002
Minimum RMS Power: -91.82 dB -93.37 dB
Maximum RMS Power: .4 dB -2.21 dB
Average RMS Power: -14.62 dB -14.21 dB
Total RMS Power: -13.3 dB -12.92 dB

Using RMS Window of 50 ms

[Patrick M]

Here's the JPN WYWH CD...the one that came in the mini-LP sleeve:



Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32765
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 32 2
DC Offset: 0 -.001
Minimum RMS Power: -110.1 dB -97.95 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -.52 dB -2.92 dB
Average RMS Power: -15.58 dB -14.97 dB
Total RMS Power: -14.24 dB -13.66 dB

Using RMS Window of 50 ms

[krabapple]

Some of TFC is left over from The Wall, but some of it isn't. I know "Your Possible Pasts" and "The Hero's Return" are supposed to be leftovers.

True, but most other cuts are leftovers too. The facts have it that Fletcher Memorial, Two Suns In The Sunset, Southhampton Dock, and TFC title track were all new tunes added by Waters and recorded without the other Floyd members (Gilmour and Mason, Wright was gone as of The Wall), the remaining tunes are extra's from The Wall.

Obviously not quite true, since Gilmour plays on 'Fletcher Memorial Home' and "The FInal Cut'.

[Rspaight]

I can believe "Two Suns", though (the credits even note that Andy Newmark played drums on that one).

Ryan

[krabapple]

Not denying that on some tracks it's just Waters + session guys; just sayin' that the tracks cited by britre don't all fit that description.

[britre]

Not denying that on some tracks it's just Waters + session guys; just sayin' that the tracks cited by britre don't all fit that description.

It's not nessessarily true Gilmour in fact played on any of the tracks on TFC at all, but.... it sure does sound like Gilmour style on "Not Now John" and "Your Possible Pasts" but another fact that may or may not be pertinent is the later reformed Floyd has never played any of the tracks off TFC live or otherwise while Waters has played them frequently. This might indicate that Glimour, Mason and Wright have no rights or credits to any of this material while Waters does. Now one might argue that Gilmour played on these tracks and gave up all his rights to them, or did Gimour not play on them at all and therefore has no rights to them where Waters does because he did write, play and hire studio musicians to play on them? And as further argument to support my position, is it possible that only "Your Possible Pasts", "Heroes Return", "Not Now John" and of course "Fletcher Memorial Home" could be leftovers from the Wall considering they fit that theme well? Food for thought....

[Rspaight]

another fact that may or may not be pertinent is the later reformed Floyd has never played any of the tracks off TFC live or otherwise while Waters has played them frequently. This might indicate that Glimour, Mason and Wright have no rights or credits to any of this material while Waters does. Now one might argue that Gilmour played on these tracks and gave up all his rights to them, or did Gimour not play on them at all and therefore has no rights to them where Waters does because he did write, play and hire studio musicians to play on them?

They can perform whatever they want, AFAIK, as long as the publisher gets paid. They could play Radio KAOS songs if they really wanted to. Who played on a track has nothing to do with who's allowed to perform it. (Otherwise there would be no tribute or cover bands.)

The post-Waters band has performed *lots* of songs with Waters writing credits, so it's not that they want to deny him royalties.

They've never performed anything from Saucerful of Secrets, More, Obscured By Clouds, Atom Heart Mother, or Animals, either, AFAIK. It's more likely the reason is that nothing from Final Cut was a "hit."

And as further argument to support my position, is it possible that only "Your Possible Pasts", "Heroes Return", "Not Now John" and of course "Fletcher Memorial Home" could be leftovers from the Wall considering they fit that theme well?

All the stuff that references the Falklands/Reagan/Thatcher obviously is new, since all that happened after The Wall was written. (Thatcher was elected in May 1979 and the album was released in November 1979 -- they were clearly recording after the election, but I don't think any "Wall leftovers" would have been written at that late date.)

Also, since "Not Now John" seems to be in part about the experience of making the Wall movie, I'd think that would post-date the album, too.

I'm sure some of the Final Cut material (musical ideas, lyric fragments) originated with The Wall material, but I'd be willing to bet very little (if any) of it survived *completely* intact to the final album. Almost *certainly* no complete master recordings of songs.

As an aside, though Wright was long gone by the time Final Cut came out -- he's not even in the "official" credits for that LP -- most accounts have him fired during the Wall sessions and brought back on a contract basis for the live shows. (As he also was for the Momentary Lapse of Reason album and tour. I think he became a "real" member again for Division Bell.)

Ryan

[britre]

The post-Waters band has performed *lots* of songs with Waters writing credits, so it's not that they want to deny him royalties.

They've never performed anything from Saucerful of Secrets, More, Obscured By Clouds, Atom Heart Mother, or Animals, either, AFAIK. It's more likely the reason is that nothing from Final Cut was a "hit."Ryan

This is not true as "Not Now John" was in the top forty at the time, and there are many tracks that post Waterless Floyd and Waters Solo have done from older material. Besides the fact that all the albums you cited were Gilmour, Mason, Waters, Wright credit not soleley "Waters" credit.

Also, since "Not Now John" seems to be in part about the experience of making the Wall movie, I'd think that would post-date the album, too.Ryan

How does that song relate to the movie?

I'm sure some of the Final Cut material (musical ideas, lyric fragments) originated with The Wall material, but I'd be willing to bet very little (if any) of it survived *completely* intact to the final album. Almost *certainly* no complete master recordings of songs.Ryan

There are however bootleg copies of Wall demos containing fragments of the songs that would eventually be complete on TFC

As an aside, though Wright was long gone by the time Final Cut came out -- he's not even in the "official" credits for that LP -- most accounts have him fired during the Wall sessions and brought back on a contract basis for the live shows. (As he also was for the Momentary Lapse of Reason album and tour. I think he became a "real" member again for Division Bell.)Ryan

This is true.

[Rspaight]

This is not true as "Not Now John" was in the top forty at the time, and there are many tracks that post Waterless Floyd and Waters Solo have done from older material. Besides the fact that all the albums you cited were Gilmour, Mason, Waters, Wright credit not soleley "Waters" credit.

I don't have time to do a ton of research, but I know they've at least played "Welcome To The Machine" and "Another Brick In The Wall" which are Waters-only, and the entirety of Dark Side of which large portions (including "Money") are Waters-only. OTOH, all of Animals except "Dogs" is Waters-only, and they've not played anything from that. It doesn't seem that the writing credit has any bearing on what the post-Waters band plays one way or the other.

My guess is simply that they'd rather play stuff from the warhorse albums than a less-successful album that they had minimal involvement in. Rights don't enter into it.

Also, since "Not Now John" seems to be in part about the experience of making the Wall movie, I'd think that would post-date the album, too.

How does that song relate to the movie?

This verse:

Not now John we've gotta get on with the film show
Hollywood waits at the end of the rainbow
Who cares what its about as long as the kids go
But not now John we've gotta get on with the show

I always interpreted as being about making the Wall movie. Just my read, though. If that verse shows up on Wall demo boots, then I'm obviously wrong.

In any event, these lines:

We showed Argentina now it's time to show these
Make us feel tough and wouldn't Maggie be pleased

couldn't *possibly* date from the Wall sessions. The Falklands war wasn't until 1982.

There are however bootleg copies of Wall demos containing fragments of the songs that would eventually be complete on TFC

Sure, that's true.

It sounded to me like the conversation was centering around whether the actual *recordings* on TFC dated from the Wall sessions (and thus featured Gilmour, etc. vs. post-Wall sessions with all Floyd members vs. post-Wall sessions with Waters/session guys). I find that unlikely.

Of course, I may have totally misunderstood the thread, in which case I'll just get my coat...

Ryan

[britre]

Of course, I may have totally misunderstood the thread, in which case I'll just get my coat...

Ryan

Sounds good, I will buy the first round.....

[krabapple]

Gilmour has commented on his own playing on TFC, so apparently *he* thinks he played on it. I've never seen/read/heard evidence to the contrary. PF may not play any of it for a variety of reasons -- one being that they were barely a band when it was recorded.