Greil Marcus' desert island selections - c. 1979

[lukpac]

I do like it better than Pepper, though. For my money, Pepper's one of their weakest LPs. Historically, yeah, it's a big deal, but there's not much there beyond the audacity. I mean, would you rather listen to "Day Tripper" or "Fixing A Hole"? "Paperback Writer" or "Within You Without You"? "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away" or "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite"? Thought so. (I notice Marcus didn't list it, either.)

How about Day Tripper vs. A Day In the Life? Paperback Writer vs. Lucy In The Sky? You've Got To Hide Your Love Away vs. With A Little Help From My Friends?

I would tend to say the whole on Sgt. Pepper is greater than the sum of its parts. Same with Exile (which is on the list). I don't pull out Exile because I want to listen to Sweet Black Angel, I pull it out because I want to listen to Exile. Same with Pepper.

Same thing with Pet Sounds. Aside from a couple tracks ("Wouldn't It Be Nice," "God Only Knows"), it's awfully thin next to their earlier work.

Er...what? It's thin next to "Party"? Or Wild Honey? What "earlier work"? A collection of singles? Do I have to remind anyone of Our Favorite Recording Sessions?

[Mike Hunte]

Same thing with [i]Pet Sounds. Aside from a couple tracks ("Wouldn't It Be Nice," "God Only Knows"), it's awfully thin next to their earlier work.

Ryan

From an album standpoint? I'd have to disagree. One may not care for "Pet Sounds" (I love it), but with the exception of "Today," I can't see how the non-hit material is any thinner than, say, what's on "Shut Down Volume Two," "All Summer Long," or even "Summer Days." Definitely ditto for the even earlier albums.

It's really difficult to even try and compare these things because it all boils down to what musical style someone prefers - catchy fun in the sun songs or melancholy choral-based songs.

FWIW, on any given day, I *might* prefer listening to 'Fixing A Hole' over 'Day Tripper'...it simply depends on what kind of stylistic mood I'm in. Though, over the past few years, I haven't had much desire to listen to either...

[lukpac]

You could argue that they're more exciting, which seems to be a common thread in Marcus' picks.

I demand Got Live If You Want It!

[Rspaight]

How about Day Tripper vs. A Day In the Life? Paperback Writer vs. Lucy In The Sky? You've Got To Hide Your Love Away vs. With A Little Help From My Friends?

1) "Day in the Life" certainly has its merits, but "Day Tripper" is a better pop song.
2) "Paperback" any day. "Lucy" is a snooze.
3) "Hide" has emotional depth. "Friends" is a nursery rhyme.

I would tend to say the whole on Sgt. Pepper is greater than the sum of its parts.

I wouldn't argue with that.

Ryan

[Rspaight]

From an album standpoint? I'd have to disagree. One may not care for "Pet Sounds" (I love it), but with the exception of "Today," I can't see how the non-hit material is any thinner than, say, what's on "Shut Down Volume Two," "All Summer Long," or even "Summer Days." Definitely ditto for the even earlier albums.

I was thinking more of the singles. Yeah, from a begin-to-end standpoint, Pet Sounds is probably as good or better than any non-comp Beach Boys LP. I'm not overly familiar with a lot of those anyway, since I never really "got" the Beach Boys in the first place.

Ryan

[lukpac]

1) "Day in the Life" certainly has its merits, but "Day Tripper" is a better pop song.
2) "Paperback" any day. "Lucy" is a snooze.
3) "Hide" has emotional depth. "Friends" is a nursery rhyme.

Hold on here. What's more important? "Emotional depth" or "a better pop song"? Wouldn't you say WALHFMF is a better pop song than YGTHYLA? That A Day In The Life has a *lot* more depth than Day Tripper?

Just sayin'.

[Mike Hunte]

I guess, as with all these lists, that it ultimately boils down to tastes.

But, I do have to say, that I think it's become somewhat of a rock cliche in journalistic circles to diss an artist's later work (i.e. "fat and bloated") compared to their earlier (i.e. "young and vibrant") stuff. While it *may* often be true, I think it's mostly an attempt to be hip on their part. Marsh being a prime offender.

I like the "Star Club" album for what it is...but a desert island disc?

[lukpac]

I guess, as with all these lists, that it ultimately boils down to tastes.

But, I do have to say, that I think it's become somewhat of a rock cliche in journalistic circles to diss an artist's later work (i.e. "fat and bloated") compared to their earlier (i.e. "young and vibrant") stuff. While it *may* often be true, I think it's mostly an attempt to be hip on their part. Marsh being a prime offender.

I like the "Star Club" album for what it is...but a desert island disc?

I'd tend to agree on all counts. Star Club might be fun, but if nothing had ever followed it, would it even be a footnote today?

[David R. Modny]

Wouldn't you say WALHFMF is a better pop song than YGTHYLA?

I like JKYJRPGHUDSAZEDOFSMCBGFU the best.

[Rspaight]

Hold on here. What's more important? "Emotional depth" or "a better pop song"? Wouldn't you say WALHFMF is a better pop song than YGTHYLA? That A Day In The Life has a *lot* more depth than Day Tripper?

Just sayin'.

I think you already do, but understand that I'm being a pain in the ass devil's-advocate here.

But I'd say a case could be made that WALHFMF is simplistic and uninteresting, pop-song-wise, compared to even YGTHYLA. I don't find the faux-bandstand "oompah" rhythms of stuff like "Friends" and "Getting Better" particularly compelling (yes, I understand that's the whole "concept" of the record), and the lyrics were obviously dashed off to give Ringo something to sing, which he does in his insincere but charming way. John at least sings YGTHYLA like he means it.

I actually like "A Day In The Life," but for the sake of argument, I'd avoid confusing "apparent profundity" with "depth." "Day Tripper" is frothy and shallow, no doubt about it. But is "A Day In The Life" *really* deep, or does it just *sound* deep? And to take it a step further, is a song that sounds deep but really isn't any more or less emotionally valid than a shallow song that exults in its shallowness?

For my next trick, I'll prove that black is white and get run over at the next zebra crossing.

Ryan

[MK]

Pepper's taken an ass-whooping for some time now, especially since Jann Wenner INSISTS that it's the greatest album ever made.

If I break up Sgt. Pepper track by track, it falls apart for me. Except for "A Day In The Life," it doesn't hold up that well song for song. Which make Luke's comparison to Exile interesting because for me, all but one or two tracks on Exile DOES hold up on its own. I still like Pepper as a totality, if it was a flop and ignored, I bet people would look back at it as a nice piece of psychedelia. The production's impressive, there's excellent melodies, bass-playing, guitar parts, etc. and even the lyrics are sporadically excellent. Also, if Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane were popped in and two weak cuts were popped out, it would probably hold up better too.

I still think Abbey Road is the equal of any of those early records. "Maxwell's" still sucks, and the early stuff was almost devoid of pretension, but "A Taste of Honey"? "Till There Was You?" Bleeech.

[Rspaight]

Yeah, PPM isn't very good apart from a handful of tracks. (I don't know what Guterman was smoking when he put that in his Best Ever book.) Each successive album is an improvement (though BFS might have been a tiny step back from Hard Day's Night), and they really hit their stride with Help! through Revolver.

Pepper isn't a bad album, it's just got this reputation as the Platonic Ideal of rock albums that isn't at all supported by its actual content. The only part that really works for me is the last three tracks -- "Good Morning Good Morning" and "Sgt. Pepper Reprise" actually *rock*, and on "Day In The Life" the experimentalism pays off bigtime.

The rest, like you say, doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. I mean, take "She's Leaving Home" (please). Drippy cliched "parents just don't understand" lyrics, the wimpiest arrangement this side of 101 Strings, and overall flaccidity. And "When I'm 64"? Groan. ("Lovely Rita" ain't half-bad, though, with Paul gettin' it on with Rita and her sisters on the sofa over a lively backing track.)

IMO.

Ryan

[MK]

"A Hard Day's Night" may be the only Beatles album without a single bad cut. I might add "Revolver," "Love You Too" almost works...

[Xenu]

Funny you say that. I don't think AHDN has particularly weak cuts, but it's my least favorite of the first four, while BFS is my favorite of the first four. And I really like PPM and WTB.

[lukpac]

Funny you say that. I don't think AHDN has particularly weak cuts, but it's my least favorite of the first four, while BFS is my favorite of the first four. And I really like PPM and WTB.

Hrmph.

AHDN has always been my fav of the early stuff. Having a stereo Parlophone LP of it early on helped, I suppose.