Confused about "A Quick One While He's Away"

dudelsack · Postby **dudelsack** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:34 pm

I really enjoy the mono Decca "Happy Jack" LP that I have, beat to shit as it is. Of course, the only stereo version I've heard is that Polydor extra-stereo remaster, but I think the mastering is poopy.

Postby **lukpac** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:46 pm

"extra-stereo remaster"?

dudelsack · Postby **dudelsack** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:53 pm

Sorry, the 2003-ish disc with more stereo tracks than before...I've forgotten which tracks were replaced from the previous edition because I never listen to the damn thing.

Postby **lukpac** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:01 pm

Ahh. As far as the original album goes, not a single track is the same. All of the tracks are either remixed or original stereo mixes (not used on the last disc). See My Way is now fake stereo (was mono).

dudelsack · Postby **dudelsack** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:19 pm

lukpac wrote:See My Way is now fake stereo (was mono).

God bless Jon Astley (or, in the interest of fairness, whomever thought this was an upgrade).

Rspaight · Postby **Rspaight** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:23 pm

I have both so I could do the hard work of checking this for myself, but I'm lazy...

Are some/all/none of the stereo mixes different between the 2003 CD and the German stereo AQO LP? (Leaving aside "So Sad" and "See My Way.")

Ryan

Postby **lukpac** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:37 pm

German LP:
all true stereo except See My Way and So Sad About Us (fake stereo)

2003 CD (IIRC):
original stereo mixes: Whiskey Man, Don't Look Away, AQOWHA
new stereo remixes: Run Run Run, Boris The Spider, I Need You, Heatwave, Cobwebs & Strange, So Sad About Us
fake stereo: See My Way

That's not counting bonus tracks.

Rspaight · Postby **Rspaight** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:56 pm

Thank-ee.

Ryan

dudelsack · Postby **dudelsack** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:58 am

Yeah, thanks.

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:17 am

lukpac wrote:I knew there was something wrong with the TKAA DVD version...

IIRC, while at the correct pitch, the speed is off. Yes, for some reason, they did some type of speed "correction" for the DVD while keeping the pitch the same.

THat's probably a result of using the CD version of the song. The one printed on the actual soundtrack is likely in sync with the film, but either due to PAL/NTSC reasons or by some other factor, the one on the CD isn't terribly in sync. Thus, they probably had to manipulate it.

Odd how this works, as soundtrack material is usually timed better than this.

Postby **lukpac** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:34 am

Actually, I *think* what happened is they said "we have to run the video at this speed, but if we do, the pitch will be off. So we'll change the pitch, but leave the speed (since we can't change it)." Something with PAL/NTSC/film speeds. Ie, they used the film's audio elements, and they *were* in sync, but at the wrong pitch (when played back at that speed).

I still haven't pulled out my video of the RCA CED version, but AFAIK, all disc versions are correct and the DVD is, well, wrong.

CitizenDan · Postby **CitizenDan** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:52 pm

I just compared three versions of the same performance of "A Quick One" -- on the first MCA TKAA CD, the R'n'R Circus CD, and the TKAA DVD.

Here's the poop: The pitch on all three is identical throughout; after the a capella intro, the band starts in a perfect 'D' (I used both a pitch pipe and a keyboard to make sure).

The DVD version, however, is a bit slower than either of the other two; not a lot, but enough to notice. In fact, enough for me to notice it the first time I saw the movie after absorbing the soundtrack LP, circa 1981 (it had a brief run on HBO).

The version in the film has seemed slow all along, even on the fucked-up VHS, but only compared to the version on the soundtrack album. Since the pitch in all performances is identical, it's hard to say which one is correct.

I think the slower-sounding version in the film (and the DVD) is the one, and that for whatever reason, Ox sped it up a bit for the soundtrack album (he did lots of tweaking in compiling that album, so it's not out of the question). Just because that's the version that's been re-released and that we've gotten used to doesn't make it the most accurate representation of the actual performance.

Ergo, my conclusion is the exact opposite of Luke's: DVD yes, CD no.

Postby **lukpac** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:04 am

Are you SURE that the previous (non-DVD) video versions are indeed slower? The ability to change pitch and speed independently is fairly new - you need a computer to do it. If JAE had sped things up in 1979, the pitch would be higher.

McGoodwin, what's the case with the R&R Circus DVD?

CitizenDan · Postby **CitizenDan** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:31 am

Well, is this technology really that new? I clearly recall from various accounts of the Beatles' studio adventures (Lewisohn, McDonald, et al.) that they were able, via oscilliscopes and what-not, to change pitch without changing speed and vice-versa. So doing it in 1979 presumably wasn't a problem.

And I'm positive about that song being slower in the celluloid and home-video versions I've seen. I bought the soundtrack LP after seeing the movie during its first run in 1979, and listened to it a zillion times before seeing the movie again. When I did, "AQO" was noticeably slower. And among all the sped-up sounds in that bad VHS version, it sounded normal.

But that's just me. None of us were there, so none of us knows which version is the correct one. But the one on the DVD sounds closest to me, anyway.

Postby **lukpac** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:04 am

CitizenDan wrote:Well, is this technology really that new? I clearly recall from various accounts of the Beatles' studio adventures (Lewisohn, McDonald, et al.) that they were able, via oscilliscopes and what-not, to change pitch without changing speed and vice-versa. So doing it in 1979 presumably wasn't a problem.

No, that changed the pitch AND the speed. If you play a tape faster, the pitch will increase. The only way around that is fancy computer software. Like the stuff used these days to put bad singers in tune.

And I'm positive about that song being slower in the celluloid and home-video versions I've seen. I bought the soundtrack LP after seeing the movie during its first run in 1979, and listened to it a zillion times before seeing the movie again. When I did, "AQO" was noticeably slower. And among all the sped-up sounds in that bad VHS version, it sounded normal.

But that's just me. None of us were there, so none of us knows which version is the correct one. But the one on the DVD sounds closest to me, anyway.

I just pulled out my VHS copies of the RCA CED and a (I believe) 16mm print: both run at the "correct" speed (vs. the normal sped up video transfers). I played the DVD side by side with the 16mm version. They stayed in near perfect sync, yet the 16mm version was far lower in pitch. So yes, it *is* slower *and* lower in pitch.

As this *matches* the versions on disc (speed it up to match and the pitch will match too), that confirms to me that these are correct, and that the pitch of the DVD was altered (still too slow, but now the pitch is correct).

Now, as to *why* it is too slow, I'm confused. Film (24 fps) to NTSC (30 fps) should not result in a pitch shift (you double every 5th frame). If for some reason the film was played back at 30 fps, well, that would just make things *faster*.

The ONLY thing I can think of is since R&R Circus was going to be a TV special, the film was going at 25 fps to match PAL. Play that back at 24 fps and it will be too slow. I should dub some audio from these video versions and see exactly how much slower the film version is.