The Who: Odds And Sods

[lukpac]

IMO my (original mix, MCA) JPN CD(s) has a better sounding "Love Reign O'er Me" than either the German Polydor or the MFSL UD2. It also sounds slightly better on one other track, which I don't recall. Overall, I like the German Polydor, as it has a bit more treble than the MFSL, and I find that the extra treble suits most of the tracks. I've never compared (IIRC) the Polydor to the original mix MCA US CD, as I dumped my copy after getting the USA remix CD.

I was talking about TKAA, FYI.

Could you do a rip of some sort from your MCA Quad? I'm curious to see if it is indeed any different. I'm doubting it, but it would be interesting to see.

[lukpac]

IMO my (original mix, MCA) JPN CD(s) has a better sounding "Love Reign O'er Me" than either the German Polydor or the MFSL UD2. It also sounds slightly better on one other track, which I don't recall. Overall, I like the German Polydor, as it has a bit more treble than the MFSL, and I find that the extra treble suits most of the tracks. I've never compared (IIRC) the Polydor to the original mix MCA US CD, as I dumped my copy after getting the USA remix CD.

This is what I compared:

- sample from Dob
- Polydor 831 076-2 (inner ring "831 076-2 01 MADE IN W.GERMANY BY PDO")
- MCA MCAD2-6895-2/DIDX-352 (inner ring "MCAD-2-6895-2-1T"). Disc says "Manufactured in U.S.A. for MCA Records..." Looks like it came from JVC.

Using a null test in ProTools Free, this is what I found:

- other than a single sample offset between the channels, Dob's sample was 100% identical to the Polydor.

- Dob's sample was 100% identical to my MCA.

If there's a different version of the original mix on CD, I haven't found it.

[lukpac]

One more:

TKAA - Long Live Rock

Sampled:

MCA MCAD-6899 (inner ring "MCAD-6899SP UNI N300655-5"). "Manufactured for MCA Records..."
Polydor POCP-9212 (inner ring "POCP-9212 1MM1 C 99 X"). This is the 2 disc set.

Null test:

Identical.

[lukpac]

Ok, for some reason EAC is choking on Long Live Rock when doing a WAV compare (it's just saying they are different), but if I edit the files so they both start at the same point, it works fine. Odd.

[lukpac]

Check out Naked Eye on the Odds & Sods remaster for a laugh. It has no hiss. And no, it is not from a better source.

As terrible as I think that noise reduction is, and while I do think the remix is a tad bright, I still think I like the remix better. The remix actually *has* some high end, the bass seems a bit better, and there isn't distortion all over the vocals. And it isn't edited near the end.

A lot of those original mixes (at least as heard on that CD) just seem kind of thin and lacking in any real high end IMO.

[Dob]

- other than a single sample offset between the channels, Dob's sample was 100% identical to the Polydor.

That sure doesn't sound like much, but could that offset make an audible difference in the higher frequencies? I'm thinking that the higher the frequency, the more there would be a phase cancellation effect. For example, at 22k, wouldn't a one sample offset between channels result in a 90 degree out of phase condition? And at 11k it would be 45 degrees out of phase?

[lukpac]

I suppose there could be an effect of some sort. But you won't have any problems under headphones, and it's doubtful you'll have many with speakers. The biggest problem I could see would be summing to mono.

[Dob]

Yes, I was thinking of the portions of music that were centered (near mono), as hard left/hard right signals would probably not be in phase to begin with. For those centered portions, though, wouldn't you have potential phase cancellations even with headphones?

[lukpac]

It *might* sound a bit strange (although I doubt it with only a sample difference), but nothing is going to cancel. How could it? The two channels aren't mixing together at all. Things can only cancel out if they are interacting with each other.

Heck, the piano on Sympathy For The Devil is 180° out of phase, and that doesn't seem to bother that many people (except when played in mono).

[Phil Elliott]

FWIW - when I backed up my Polydor "Quad" onto 1 CDR, I did this using Wavelab. I did a very slow scrub on the tracks and noticed the channels were slightly out of phase.

I fixed it by moving one of the channels by exactly 1 sample. I didn't think it would alter the stereo image that much in normal playback, but when I hit "undo", and replayed it, the change was surprising to say the least.

I've always been happy with the Polydor btw.

[lukpac]

Sounds like it could be the Polydor with the problem, then.

Perhaps it's just the original mix, but neither the MCA/Polydor nor the MFSL do all that much for me.

[Xenu]

We should really make a guide.

...

Or JWB should really make a guide.

[Dob]

It *might* sound a bit strange (although I doubt it with only a sample difference), but nothing is going to cancel. How could it? The two channels aren't mixing together at all. Things can only cancel out if they are interacting with each other.

But isn't that one way to make a "quickie" karaoke mix -- by putting the channels out of phase so that the centered vocals are greatly reduced or even eliminated?

[Dob]

I didn't think it would alter the stereo image that much in normal playback, but when I hit "undo", and replayed it, the change was surprising to say the least.

Can you describe this change a bit more? Was it just the stereo image that changed or was there a tonality difference as well?

[lukpac]

But isn't that one way to make a "quickie" karaoke mix -- by putting the channels out of phase so that the centered vocals are greatly reduced or even eliminated?

Yes, but it doesn't work unless you sum to mono. Simply putting one channel out of phase and hitting play (in stereo) will just make things sound a bit odd.