Mr. Tambourine Man

Postby **lukpac** » Wed May 26, 2004 7:16 pm

Random note...I had always thought the song had never been issued in stereo, hence the big deal about the remixes (Never Before/box set and the 1996 MTM reissue). Yet listening to the original LP reveals it *is* in true stereo, just *really* narrow. Widening it up reveals a more or less left-center twin-track mix. Strange that it was issued in such a narrowed form way back then.

Patrick M · Postby **Patrick M** » Wed May 26, 2004 8:04 pm

I would have much preferred a mix with all the vocals in one channel, and the kitchen sink in the other.

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Wed May 26, 2004 8:15 pm

Some of the extreme rhetoric applied to the Tambourine Man reissue--about how revelatory it was, etc.--led me to be fairly shocked when I realized that the LP isn't too terribly different.

Postby **lukpac** » Wed May 26, 2004 9:08 pm

Other than a decent stereo mix of the title cut, there's not really much/anything that's better than a good LP. Other than the bonus tracks, of course.

FYI, apparently most/all of those tracks were "pre-mixed" to 3-track. That is, instead of mixing to mono and stereo, Melcher did a 3-track mix. That was then "reduced" to mono and stereo. I guess these 3-tracks were used in many cases for the reissues, so there really shouldn't be many/any differences, other than some slight EQ and balance differences. Now, I don't know exactly which tracks this applies to, so...

Ed Bishop · Postby **Ed Bishop** » Sat May 29, 2004 9:51 pm

Evening, gents...had a few minutes, thought I'd drop by and saw this most interesting subject....

The main difference between the Byrds stereo Lp's and the CD remasters, it seems to me, is phasing: for some reason, the 360's I have of the early albums tend toward a sloppy kind of sound, as if something were 'off'(listen to an original pressing of Love's first album--same kind of slightly grungy sound that was cleaned up nicely for the original CD remaster back in the '80s)...

"MTM" is rechanneled on the original vinyl pressing; on CD, it's in very tight stereo, or wider stereo...there's a 20-track compilation

that has it in nice, wide stereo, and I remember reading somewhere this was an 8-track(not 3-track)recording. Don't know how true that is, but it does sound good, and doesn't match the separation of the box set, even though obviously, the title of the CD suggests all tracks(and therefore, tape sources)were lifted for this comp(certainly not the tape sources!)...

Equally strange are the 2-track mixes from the box of TTT & "He Was A Friend"...the latter is especially curious, as, like TTT, it appears as a 2-track mix, but incomplete, without the "Leader of a nation" line...why it's not there is mysterious, because it turns out, on the original stereo vinyl, this is 2-track folded almost--but not quite--to mono, something Pro Logic revealed. Strange....but, no stranger than "All I Really Want To Do" being one take as a mono 45/Lp cut, but a different one in stereo. Fucked up, for sure. As for TTT, it fades later in 2-track, but that doesn't answer if that's the final mix before the mixdown to mono, although one would have to assume it was...why is a mystery we may never solve...

Finally, how about "She Don't Care About Time"? Only way to listen to that B-side is in mono, since the NEVER BEFORE version sounds so doctored and screwed around with it's unlistenable, IMO. Seems like stereo, but it just sounds so shitty....

Ah well, at least this thread doesn't involve Paul Revere & The Raiders, since what Melcher did sonically to that stereo catalog, originally, was nothing less than lazy and/or criminal. Some amends--in terms of stereo and mix--have been made since, but also, with the original 2-CD comp, terrible crimes committed, too. And we still don't have "Airplane Strike" with the proper 45 ending, mono or stereo, on CD, do we? :roll:

ED

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Sat May 29, 2004 10:16 pm

What's the proper '45 ending?

Postby **lukpac** » Sun May 30, 2004 1:07 am

Ed Bishop wrote:"MTM" is rechanneled on the original vinyl pressing;

As noted above, no, it isn't. It's true stereo, just VERY narrow. Instrumentation slightly to the left, vocals center.

on CD, it's in very tight stereo, or wider stereo...there's a 20-track compilation that has it in nice, wide stereo, and I remember reading somewhere this was an 8-track(not 3-track)recording. Don't know how true that is, but it does sound good, and doesn't match the separation of the box set, even though obviously, the title of the CD suggests all tracks(and therefore, tape sources)were lifted for this comp(certainly not the tape sources!)...

Yes, MTM was an 8-track recording. I haven't heard that 20 tracks CD (I should); the box set uses the Never Before mix, which doesn't have much separation. The MTM remix/remaster uses a (new, I believe) wide remix.

Equally strange are the 2-track mixes from the box of TTT & "He Was A Friend"...the latter is especially curious, as, like TTT, it appears as a 2-track mix, but incomplete, without the "Leader of a nation" line...why it's not there is mysterious, because it turns out, on the original stereo vinyl, this is 2-track folded almost--but not quite--to mono, something Pro Logic revealed. Strange....but, no stranger than "All I Really Want To Do" being one take as a mono 45/Lp cut, but a different one in stereo. Fucked up, for sure. As for TTT, it fades later in 2-track, but that doesn't answer if that's the final mix before the mixdown to mono, although one would have to assume it was...why is a mystery we may never solve...

See the "pre-mixed to 3-track" comments below. Apparently for TTT the pre-mix was only to 2 tracks instead of 3.

Are you sure He Was A Friend of Mine was narrow stereo originally? I haven't heard an original of that. Yet.

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Sun May 30, 2004 2:51 pm

The 20 Essential Tracks comps marks the first appearence of the wide MTM reissue, despite the box's using of the Never Before mix. This apparently caused a lot of people to snap the thing up, as they weren't sure whether said mix would make it to the standalone reissue. God bless marketing.

Postby **lukpac** » Sun May 30, 2004 3:22 pm

So how different is the mix? I seem to recall Steve mentioning that at one point, but not really knowing much about it. I just saw that CD, yesterday, but didn't pick it up because I figured there wasn't anything unique on it.

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Sun May 30, 2004 10:10 pm

Huh? It's the same as the one on the MTM reissue. It fades out sooner, I think.

Postby **lukpac** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:20 am

I was under the impression that it was better in some way. More "60s like" or something.

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Mon May 31, 2004 2:33 pm

It should be at:

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/tamb.mp3

Ed Bishop · Postby **Ed Bishop** » Mon May 31, 2004 6:14 pm

Xenu wrote:What's the proper '45 ending?

"Airplane Strike" on 45 ends with the record 'slowing down,' literally, until it just ends....on Lp--even in mono!--it fades out before it gets that far, unfortunately...and no reissue or remix has yet to replicate the 45 ending.

ED

Xenu · Postby **Xenu** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:02 am

Really! I had no idea. That's interesting.