Allman Brothers/Fillmore East

[lukpac]

Is anyone familiar with the various releases of these shows? I've got the Deluxe Edition, as well as the remixed The Fillmore Concerts. Does anyone have any idea with AMG is saying here:

The great thing about that is, the original album that brought the Allmans so much acclaim is as notable for its clever studio editing as it is for its performances. Producer Tom Dowd skillfully trimmed some of the performances down to relatively concise running time (edits later restored on the double-disc set The Fillmore Concerts), at times condensing several performances into one track.

I haven't (yet) lined up both discs side by side for their entirety, but the only significant difference in timing I see is on Stormy Monday - the DE lists 8:48, while TFC lists 10:19.

Then, they say this about TFC:

It is also a slightly less honest release, where "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed" is concerned -- Dowd edited the version here together from two different performances, first and second shows, the dividing line being where Duane Allman's solo comes in. Not that this is the only concert album where this kind of editing has been done, but the original Live at the Fillmore contained a single take of the song, and some purists may prefer that.

Again, I haven't played the two back in perfect sync yet, but the last time I listened they seemed to match. What gives?

I'd say I prefer the original mixes (the remixes have some added reverb that isn't necessary), but I do like the fact that TFC doesn't fade out between tracks, something that's kind of annoying on the DE.

[dudelsack]

I just have the original Polydor CD release. Sounds good to me. Interestingly, I tried to make a CD-R with the "Eat A Peach" tracks added in (restoring the transition to Mountain Jam, for instance). I was foiled by the fact that the tracks from EAP had a slightly different sound to them.
Both CDs were mastered by Dennis Drake, IIRC.

[krabapple]

I have the DTS surround version. Recommended only if you *really* like having guitars behind you. Personally, I don't, so I've been meaning to trade it in for a different version, for a long time now.

[lukpac]

I'd like to hear that sometime, actually.

[Rspaight]

I've got the DTS thing, too. It's an interesting novelty, but I don't much enjoy the whole "one instrument in each speaker" approach for pleasure listening.

The only other version I've got is the Fillmore Concerts.

Ryan

[krabapple]

I'd like to hear that sometime, actually.

I've been meaning ot sell it forever. No reasonable offer refused.

[Stretcher Case]

I just have the original Polydor CD release. Sounds good to me. Interestingly, I tried to make a CD-R with the "Eat A Peach" tracks added in (restoring the transition to Mountain Jam, for instance). I was foiled by the fact that the tracks from EAP had a slightly different sound to them.
Both CDs were mastered by Dennis Drake, IIRC.

Interesting -- I'll have to do a comparo on that.

I found the SACD of Eat A Peach to be decent, but a little "forward".

[lukpac]

I was listening to You Don't Love Me in the car this morning. TFC notes it's an edit of two different performances. Again, I haven't lined the two versions up yet, but they sure seem to be the same (all 19 minutes worth). I *did* notice a fairly obvious edit on the original mix, right around 7:00. Nothing sticks out there on the remix, so either they did a better job (most likely), or the edit isn't the same.

Maybe I'll have time for this later today...

[MK]

TFC sounds 'wrong,' in 'audiophile' terms, but without the other versions for reference, I bet most musicians would take it over the original. They picked a better take of "One Way Out," I think from the DREAMS box set. I have never done a note-for-note comparison and probably won't, it would be too damn tedious, but if I'm thinking more about the music than the sound quality, TFC probably has the edge. On the other hand, you may want to hear EAT A PEACH and FILLMORE EAST in their original Lp configurations, they do have a nice flow even with the gaps between live tracks.

[lukpac]

One Way Out is the same. The biggest difference is TFC doesn't have Greg's shouts and handclaps in the drum solo. Drives me nuts every time I hear the beat get turned around at the end of the solo...

There are a bunch of mix differences here and there, but in terms of overall sound, the biggest one is TFC has some echo/reverb on everything to make it sound "live" while the original mixes are very upfront and dry.

[CitizenDan]

This might be what Luke was talking about, but the point on "You Don't Love Me" where the TFC version differs is obvious -- when the band stops so Duane can play alone, on the LP, his guitar feeds back for a few seconds, but at that point on TFC, it decays naturally.

[MK]

Whoops, I went back and read the liner notes. "One Way Out" came from a later, June set of Fillmore performances, not the March 1971 set that was the primary source, so I guess the original used the same June performance of "One Way Out."

[lukpac]

This might be what Luke was talking about, but the point on "You Don't Love Me" where the TFC version differs is obvious -- when the band stops so Duane can play alone, on the LP, his guitar feeds back for a few seconds, but at that point on TFC, it decays naturally.

I'll have to listen again, but it seems that there's a spot on the original mix where a decaying cymbal just cuts off, where on the remix it continues to ring (or was faded down).

Let me reboot into OS 9...

[lukpac]

This is what Tom Dowd has to say about Liz Reed in the TFC liners:

Now these performances finally sound as glorious as they did those heady nights at the Fillmore. The clearest example of Tom Dowd's approach to the project comes in the 13-minute version of "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed" that is pieced together from multiple takes, one of them being the March 13 (first show) version that appeared on the original album. The band played the song three times during it's Fillmore stand. "one of them I hated," Dowd says, "But two of them were fantastic!" Dowd and mixer Jay Mark mixed down those two version (sic) and proceeded to, as Dowd puts it, "take this song apart. I came to the conclusion that in the first half of the song, up to Duane's solo, I had a better band performance and Dickey Betts' solo on the version that we had not used before. Starting with Duane's solo, though, it's the original version. Twenty-one years later, I know 'Liz Reed' as well as I know any song, certainly more than I did in that time of instant decisions. Putting the two versions together showed off the song the best. Listen to it! Listen to the togetherness of Dickey, Duane, and Gregg on the theme lines, and how [drummers] Butch and Jaimoe adjust to the changes up front. There's much more exciting interplay now, more like the band sounded those nights."

Well, I just played the versions from the DE and TFC side by side, and they are note-fucking-identical. So Dowd and AMG are full of shit. Now, the mixes and balances are clearly different, but they are 100% the same performance.

I'll try You Don't Love Me later.

[lukpac]

More interesting observations...

Trouble No More is a different take. I hadn't noticed that previously.

Statesboro Blues is identical, as is Don't Keep Me Wonderin'.

I think I figured out You Don't Love Me. Around 7:00 the band just stops and Duane (?) starts holding a note...:

Original mix - band playing, downbeat (band stops, Duane bends some notes, drummers do some fills), Duane stops, EDIT, Duane starts solo

Remix - band plaing, EDIT, downbeat (band stops, Duane holds one note, no drumming, bass notes), Duane stops, Duane starts solo

The edit is pretty damn seamless on the remix, so I'm simply assuming that's where it is, as that's where things differ. The edit on the original mix is easy to spot, as the cymbals are still ringing when the edit occurs. Note that from "Duane starts solo" on things match up again.

The levels on the drums and percussion are quite different in places, but other than the placement of the edit in the middle, totally the same.